A Chemical Analysis Of Water Wetter - And why it is a bad thing to use.

[CandyKid]

Stemming from Leeum's unfortunate use of this product and Nexxo's sentiments, "Water Wetter is an instrument of evil. It is like Artex, or pebble dashing. It has no place in this universe," we embarked upon a journey that would lead us into the bowels of Water Wetter mis-functionality.

This is a compilation of that quest for truth!

But first, some important information about the chemicals discusses herein:

Heptane MSDS

Water Wetter MSDS

Acetone MSDS

Muriatic/Hydrochloric Acid MSDS

Originally Posted by fillip

There is some nasty stuff in there but nothing I don't think you wouldn't find in everyday engine coolant/anti freeze.

A-HA!

Sure there is... normal anti-freeze is ethylene glycol or propylene glycol, diethylene glycol and usually some sort of acid salts.

Water Wetter has something that specifically caught my eye: Tolytriazole PolySiloxane Polymer.

What I'm working with currently is PDMS or polydimethylsiloxane which is used as a coating on certain devices... a siloxane polymer is a SILICONE polymer which will permanently bond with most rubbers used in tubing... this would explain why it's so hard to get rid of.

Originally Posted by fivecheebs

ah haa! Thats interesting CK, Thanks

Siloxane itself is [Si(CH3)2-O]n which will polymerize with itself and bind to anything even remotely polar... if the tubing is high-quality (Tygon), then it'll be easier to get rid of, but if it's just silicone or cheaper tubing, then it'll bind more.

Originally Posted by leeum

That's pretty interesting stuff CandyKid, regardless, this stuff is going to be introduced to a new home...the bin

Originally Posted by Pug

Storming info/research CK, much appreciated.
In all the time I've seen WW advocated/slammed, that's the most in depth breakdown I've ever read on it.

I have, however, seen the end results of long-term usage of it, including a pic that, for a while, I couldn't shake the image of being chewing-gum wrapped around a pump impellor. Nasty. Not in my loops, thx.

Originally Posted by Starbuck3733T

+friggin+!!! Finally, a valid chemistry answer.

Now, the question is, does polydimethysiloxane break down in the presence of acetone? I cleaned all the parts I reused this last round with acetone (well, not the plastic parts) before putting them back in to the loop.

Well, Water Wetter doesn't use PDMS which would be REALLY bad for you, but it does use a siloxane polymer which I wouldn't believe to break down in acetone. Most of the siloxane polymers I've seen, even branched ones, usually use heptane as a primary solvent which is dangerously nasty stuff. You can use other solvents, but I've not done extensive testing, the stuff we have is expensive and not really part of my department.

I wouldn't expect acetone to clean a bonded coating/film from inside the tubing and if you haven't cleaned the plastic pieces, then you've left some on them as well...

Any place you leave some is a great place for it to start polymerizing agian.

If it were me, I'd ditch all the tubes and find a way to clean the plastic. FYI, most acids will not harm your plastic if used in a short time period, you might try a peroxyacetic acid (look up MinCare), but it's ~$150 per gallon. The other hardware-store option is muriatic acid, but that'd be more harmful to plastic. Use with care and lots of distilled H2O to rinse.

THIS INFORMATION COMES WITH NO WARRANTY AND A FRIGGIN' HUGE PLEASE DON'T SUE ME DISCLAIMER!

Just did a bit more research on the subject and it really doesn't much look like a base would clean up siloxane chains. However, I must also add that I highly doubt the presence of silicone matrices in the 'goo' formed by extended WW use, it is more likely a conglomeration of single-chain polymers formed by the presence of water and acids.

The polymerization seems to be acid catalyzed while the cross-linking of a matrix would be platinum catalyzed (or something else that would pull the hydrogens), man, it's been awhile since I had an organic chemistry lecture!

One of the WW components, I can only hope, is to prevent this polymerization, but it seems they did a poor job from what I hear.

Oddly enough, the reverse reaction may also be acid catalyzed creating an equilibrium equation requiring that we push it in the opposite direction in order to dissolve the polymers. Mechansim of the Acid-Catalyzed Si-O Bond Cleavage in Siloxanes and Siloxanols.

So what's that mean? Means that muriatic acid may be the best way to get rid of it, but it has to be somewhat strong to push the reaction. Even very strong muriatic acid should have enough water in it to create stabilizing hydrogen bonds. There are other chemicals to add, but the chances of finding them on the street are slim.

FYI, muriatic acid is hydrochloric acid (HCl) and is not something that should be touching metal. So, if your pump has a magnetic drive (I.E. no exposed internal metal), then you could probably flush it. If it is not, then the HCl will eat your bearings, seals, and anything else metal for breakfast.

PLUR
CK

[BigBen2k]

Thanks for the recap.

Bill Adams (VP engr, Swiftech) had a bad experience with Watter Wetter; it slimed the inside of his test loop. Needless to say he doesn't use it anymore.

There's a fellow over at ProCooling that has tested various additives, and also came to the conclusion that Watter Wetter wasn't such a hot product, even for the intended purpose: a car.

What I have yet to see is anyone say anything bad against Zerex (not that I'm a fan, I use Silkolene).

[CandyKid]

Bill Adams (VP engr, Swiftech) had a bad experience with Watter Wetter; it slimed the inside of his test loop. Needless to say he doesn't use it anymore.

That would make sense as siloxanes are used in a coating process... they were slowly building up on the inside of his tubes like plaque in our arteries!

Please select which Zerex product you're speaking of from here.

PLUR
CK

[zer0]

i have used zyrex and it does coat the inside of my tubbing with a thin white kinda figgy layer of something however it comes off with water and dish soap (and a lil tool i have to scrub the inside of the tubing.)

oh and here is the link to zerex you asked for https://www.valvoline-technology.com...6?OpenDocument

[CandyKid]

Hrm... that doesn't tell me much, unfortunately. But if it cleans up with water, they've done themselves a good deed and stayed away from silicone. More than likely, it is a solvent/salt/[CHn]n-glycol mix as most of them are.

PLUR
CK

[fivecheebs]

Nice work melting all that info together man

I tried to find the MSDS for zerox, but couldnt find it anywhere.

[Starbuck3733T]

Awesome info. Pat yourself on the back.

[furious trout]

Wow! Great Work CK , you're a mine of useful information

[ỒĊBłůē]

Aye, that's some research. Nice one CK

Better stick a copyright on that, or all the kids will be handing it in for homework.

[Pug]

See, I knew I was right to let you do it.


@Ben - I used Silkolene Pro Cool back when I first started but now I settle for a mix of 97% d/water, 2% ACfluid™ and 1% Dye.
I also have some Tec-Protect Plus but don't have any in a rig atm.

@Russ - heh, as with most forums... the copyright notice is at the bottom of the page.

EDIT

fwiw, ACfluid contains hydroxyphosphoncarbonsäure (it's German, I'm guessing it'd be -ate at the end) but is free from heavy metals, nitrite & phospate.