Finally decided on water. (err...help!)

[DanMcr]

Hi all,

Found my way over here from Bit Tech, and thought id ask for some help. Ive been looking into w/c for a while now and decided it was about time i got off my arse and had a go. :)

Im after a good performing setup, but it also needs to look good too (I love the look of the smaller tube setups). Noise isnt a big issue, but if i can keep things quiet, i wont be moaning. ^_^

So far, i have a few ideas. I would like a res suspended in the top of the case for easier filling etc (something like a criticool 4") and something a lot bigger on the bottom. (Tankomatic type thing) I dont know if this will stuff up the performance, but i would like to make a feature out of the setup.
Im only looking at cooling the CPU & GPU too, the NB will have to wait.
I would appreciate your opinions for blocks for a 939 3500+ and a 6800. (This may change to an x800 though)
Im also a bit stuck on where to put the rad (120mm). It would be easy to put it in the front of the case, but would it be better to mount it on the back? Only i would have "thought" that blowing air through the rad and into the case wouldnt be as good. Ive got a 92mm hole in the back, so modding it for a 120 fan/rad should be fairly easy. Again, i dunno which rad to choose for this type of setup.
I was thinking TopRes > BottomRes > Pump > CPU > GPU > Rad. What pump would you reccommend? Its gonna have to push around a fair bit of water.
Smaller the better, but its not really an issue. If i need a bigger one then so be it.

As for tubing, i was hoping to run everything with 10mm od stuff. Can i get nice shiny push fits for 10mm od? I also havent a clue about thread sizes etc, but im assuming i can get these fittings for all the components. (The criticool res may be a no go though?)

As a complete noob at all this, could someone explain to me a few simple installation worries? First off, how the bloody hell am i gonna fill it up or drain it all when the time comes? Is it just a matter of filling up the top res bit by bit etc. For draining i guess im gonna need some kind of drain valve somewhere. <_<
How the hell do you leak test using a 12v pump? I suppose it can be done outside of the case whilst still using air cooling, but to install all this im gonna have to pull it apart, so its a bit pointless. Is there anyway of doing it in situ without power to the mobo? :confused:

Any help or suggestions for bits would be great. I have a budg et of about £200, but i can push it if i really needed to.

Cheers,

Dan

[Fibbles]

So far, i have a few ideas. I would like a res suspended in the top of the case for easier filling etc (something like a criticool 4") and something a lot bigger on the bottom. (Tankomatic type thing) I dont know if this will stuff up the performance, but i would like to make a feature out of the setup. I'm Pretty sure having dual reservoirs won't hinder your performance much, if any. I have a Tank O Matic add-on attached directly to my Aquastream 2.0 pump and an Aqua Computer Aquatube on the top of my case for looks more than anything and nothing changed from doubling the reservoirs.

Im only looking at cooling the CPU & GPU too, the NB will have to wait.
I would appreciate your opinions for blocks for a 939 3500+ and a 6800. (This may change to an x800 though) There's quite a few choices for blocks. With the German blocks, you'll probably need 1/4" bsp fittings if you want to use pushfits. The 1/4" is equal to a 10mm OD fitting (it might not be, I think it is and might have read that at Pro Cooling). Most of the Aqua Computer stuff is 1/8" and 6/8mm, so you'll be going smaller if you want that stuff. I'm not too sure about much of this, Risky would be the one to respond, as well as some other guys that know. ^_^


Im also a bit stuck on where to put the rad (120mm). It would be easy to put it in the front of the case, but would it be better to mount it on the back? Only i would have "thought" that blowing air through the rad and into the case wouldnt be as good. Ive got a 92mm hole in the back, so modding it for a 120 fan/rad should be fairly easy. Again, i dunno which rad to choose for this type of setup.What sort of case is it? I have my dual 120mm radiator on the top of my Lian Li PC70 case, both fans are above the rad exhausting hot air. When I had my single 120mm rad, I was blowing cool air in through the front on the bottom and it seemed to be that much cooler air was privy to the rad than what I give it now. I'm using 2 Vantec Stealth 120mm fans with 28 DBA and 53 CFM.


I was thinking TopRes > BottomRes > Pump > CPU > GPU > Rad. What pump would you reccommend? Its gonna have to push around a fair bit of water.
Smaller the better, but its not really an issue. If i need a bigger one then so be it. That's similar to mine, I have it like this: Aquatube > Tank O Matic Add-on > Aquastream > GPU > CPU > Northbridge > Radiator > HDD1 > HDD2. My Aquastream pushes all that with ease and it's pretty small (pretty much an Eheim 1046/1048 made for Aqua Computer and with 12v). Other choices include AlphaCools AP900 and AP1200 pumps, Innovateks HPPS (the "more power than an Eheim 1048" one) or any pond/aquarium pump.

As for tubing, i was hoping to run everything with 10mm od stuff. Can i get nice shiny push fits for 10mm od? I also havent a clue about thread sizes etc, but im assuming i can get these fittings for all the components. (The criticool res may be a no go though?) See above and Risky comes to mind, again :) You could ask Criticool if they will do any custom threading on the Waterplant, if not you may have to use barbs or screw in a BSP pushfit as far as possible and then use goop and/or silicon sealant to keep it in place and leak free. I had a Waterplant with my 1/2" parts and I loved it, so nice and simple, yet pretty good looking.

As a complete noob at all this, could someone explain to me a few simple installation worries? First off, how the bloody hell am i gonna fill it up or drain it all when the time comes? Is it just a matter of filling up the top res bit by bit etc. For draining i guess im gonna need some kind of drain valve somewhere. <_< Make sure everything is pushed in ALL the way, or if using barbs, make sure everything is secure and tight. To fill, just add water to one of the reservoirs with the pump on (or turn it on and off every 5 - 7 seconds) and it will eventually fill all the way. Draining can be harder, but you could stick a draining valve somewhere on the lowest point, so the water will drain very easily (thanks Nexxo for that one, as I'd have completely skipped placement when adding it and then be wondering why it would be a pain in the @$$ to drain). Pug is working on a fill and drain kit that should be ready soon, but I have no other info or details :mellow:. If you look at some of Risky's computer pics, he has a drain that looks sort of complicated, but also looks effective. You'll also need to get rid of air too, and that can be done by moving the case around to stir up air bubbles so they go to the highest point and escape (if the ressy is the highest point it's easy).

How the hell do you leak test using a 12v pump? I suppose it can be done outside of the case whilst still using air cooling, but to install all this im gonna have to pull it apart, so its a bit pointless. Is there anyway of doing it in situ without power to the mobo? :confused: When you put it together, do it inside the case with no hardware so you can avoid taking it apart and you'll get to see and stop leaks from becoming a problem. To leak test the 12v pump sans mobo, you need to stick a paperclip into two of the wires in the ATX plug. I'm not sure exactly, but one end of the clip goes into a green wire and the other into a black (if that's wrong, please correct me/it). That way, the PSU will run when it is switched on w/out needing the mobo. You can also buy a connector that plugs into the ATX power cord to do this for you. One came with my Innovatek HPPS pump and I use it all the time (when needed anyway).

Any help or suggestions for bits would be great. I have a budget of about £200, but i can push it if i really needed to.

Cheers,

DanWell, I'd buy an Aqua Computer Cuplex Pro or an AlphaCool NexXxos XP CPU block, an Aqua Computer GeForce (AquaGraFX 6800) or X800 (AquaGrATIx800) GPU and RAM cooler, an Aqua Computer Aquatube (comes in silver, red, blue and titanium), a Cape Coolplex 25 for the bottom tube res and an Airplex EVO 120. They do make rads in 80mm and dual 80mm now, so there's more options for placement and fitting w/out needing to cut. Of course, I happen to love 6/8mm, and you might not, so my suggestion is only that, it's not a "buy this or you're not cool" ultimatem, so feel free to disregard anything I type.

Whan water is setup right and problem free, it is one of the greatest things ever to grace a computer. I love my water cooling and will NEVER (unless it's a laptop) go back to air. I have low noise, low heat, a good and stable overclock and one good looking setup. ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

[Da_Rude_Baboon]

The Alphacool Nexxos kit which pug sells uses 10mm OD iirc. :)

[DanMcr]

Wow, thanks for the reply. :)

The case im using is a C3, so its easy to mod. (Ive been meaning to get a 120 in the back anyway)
The AlphaCool NexXxos XP Bold looks pretty smart, and the AC gpu blocks. I think im decided on them unless anyone has reason not to?
For the rad i was looking at the "Watercool HTF2-X-Single" 120mm. Does anybody rate these rads? I only ask because it looks really nice. (I know i know, im just a big tart) It would be a struggle to get anything bigger in, especially in the top.
As for the pump, i think im leaning towards the AP900 or the AP1500. Will the 1500 be too much though? It seems bloody powerfull and maybe a bit OTT for this. The aquastream is tempting aswell, as i believe it can be hooked up to the Aquaero? (Maybe a future purchase) As long as its powerfull enough, its all good.
If i could get the whole lot using all the same 10mm pushfits, that would be great. The 10mm tubing looks about the size im after. I wouldnt go any higher.

If i cant get the fittings for the criticool, its not a big deal. I can always use something else. As long as i can mount it so i can fill from outside, preferably at the top then its cool.

Cheers

[Darv]

Well rather than a Criticool res I would get an Aquatube because it sounds like exactly what you're after. That and it is gorgeous :wub:

The Aquastream is a good pump choice and in your set up will be more than powerful enough.

If you're planning to get an Aquaero at some point then I would go for the Aquastream. If not then an AP900 or 1500 are very good choices as well.

IMO 8/6 tubing looks better, and is Aquacomputer's preferred choice, but using 10/8 will be fine.

Block choices are fine.

The rad is a good choice aswell but an APE120 or an Alphacool one will be sufficient equivalents.

[Risky]

The conventional loop is Res>Pump>Rad>Blocks>Res, the logic beign that you cool the water after the pump so its at its coolest for the blocks, however if this complicates the setup its OKas long as the res is immediately before the pump.

If you want to have two resevoirs then you can either have one filling the other through gravity or have one as a header tank. To do the latter you need a lower res with four lines, two of which go to the top tank and enter that one above the other (you allow air to bleed up so the lower tank is full.

To be honest there is a case for skipping the second res, but it that's your chose route then let's get it sorted right.

I wouldn't pair the Criticool with this kit unless you really have to as it will be using 1/2" barbs and when you remove them 1/4NPT thread which is a pain in the ass to get pushfits for. If you want an external res maybe go with the tank-o-matic which takes 1/4BSPP thread allowign you to use pushfits of you choice. Or even make your own!

On pushfits, you can get 10mmm fittings for everythings as long as you know the thread size adn its not an American thread (NPT) otherwise it gets tricky.

[Fibbles]

Most everyone here (not everyone though) uses Aqua Computer or AlphaCool and other assorted German blocks so we'd see nothing wrong with them and reccomend them easily and without hesitation. I don't know of any ratings on the Watercool line of rads, but I do want the Watercool X triple because I have the space now and it would be neat to have, based on size and looks. The Aquastream can be connected to the Aquaero and Aqua Computer claims it has enough power to use with an Airplex EVO 1800 (an external rad that can be run passive or active, if active it will hold 15 120mm fans) so it will push what you want with no problems. It has no problems pushing the water through my 5 blocks, 2 reservoirs and double radiator now. I have tubing all over and lots of long streches with extraneous pieces extending the length of everything inside my case, no problems with the Aquastream. It can also be overvolted to push more with the Aquaero if needed. As long as everything you use is German and uses BSP you'll have no problems with using pushfits, like Risky said, if you try to fit anything from the US into the loop you'll run into problems with NPT threading, which isn't compatible with BSP.

Question: So then, 10mm OD is 1/4" BSP? If that's the case I'm using 10mm OD pushfits on my AlphaCool GPX-A Radeon block and 6/8 on my Aqua Computer parts, excep the rad.

Silver Aquatube (http://www.aquacomputer.de/prodimg/nd_products/at_silber_500.jpg)
The Eheim Compact 600 with attached reservoir (http://www.aqua-computer.de/prodimg/nd_products/compacttube+pumpe_200.jpg)

[Risky]

Question: So then, 10mm OD is 1/4" BSP? If that's the case I'm using 10mm OD pushfits on my AlphaCool GPX-A Radeon block and 6/8 on my Aqua Computer parts, excep the rad.

G1/4 = 1/4BSPP is a 1/4inch Parallel thread standard. This refers to the fitting thread size, not the tube size. most German parts use either G1/4 or G1/8.

R1/4 = 1/4 BSPT which is a Taper thread. This is less common, though used in certain parts such as Thermochill radiators (3/8 BSPT) and Hydor Pumps 1/2 BSPT

Now the tube is a bit simpler in that it is a simple matter of the diameter: 8mm, 10mm, 12mm, 1/2inch. Where you see '10/7' this means 10mm OD and 7mm ID so you use it with 10mm pushfits. 8/6 would be 8mm OD and 6mmID.

[Fibbles]

G1/4 = 1/4BSPP is a 1/4inch Parallel thread standard. This refers to the fitting thread size, not the tube size. most German parts use either G1/4 or G1/8.

R1/4 = 1/4 BSPT which is a Taper thread. This is less common, though used in certain parts such as Thermochill radiators (3/8 BSPT) and Hydor Pumps 1/2 BSPT

Now the tube is a bit simpler in that it is a simple matter of the diameter: 8mm, 10mm, 12mm, 1/2inch. Where you see '10/7' this means 10mm OD and 7mm ID so you use it with 10mm pushfits. 8/6 would be 8mm OD and 6mmID.I'm sure this has been explained to me before, I just either forget or get really confused... So how much bigger is 8/10 to 6/8?

I run all my stuff with a combo of 1/4" and 1/8" threads and 6/8 tubing throughout. If the 8/10 tubing is being used, what's the difference between it and the size of the threads?

[DanMcr]

Thanks for the replies.

Ill stick to parts that are advertised as G1/4" then. It would make my life ten times easier. Then get the 10mm pushfits for them.
Im still a bit undecided on the pump. Has anyone used the really small pumps from AquaComputer or C-Systems? They look nice on paper, but that doesnt mean a lot.

@ Risky, having the pump going into the Rad is actually gonna look a lot neater in the setup i have in mind, so ill go with that. Ill also try out the gravity method for the res's at first. (Id like to keep it as simple as possible for a 1st go) If im not happy with it i can always change it. Assuming the bottom res is a Cape Coolplex 25 or similar, what would be the best way for the 4 line setup. Just a pair of Y's ? Or is there a better way?

Does it make much of a difference having the GPU before the CPU? Just an idea i have for routing. If its not as effective as CPU 1st, then i can switch it easily.

I would like some kind of drain point though. Just so i know it isnt going to be a nightmare if ever i want to make any changes to the loop. Is there something simple i can use on the outlet of the bottom res?

And last but not least, what do i put in it all!? Distilled water and ??? I would like something completely clear so i can add some uv dye to it later.

I understand Pug isnt having the greatest of times at the moment. (Understatement)
If i can order as much of this as possible through pug/wizd that would be brilliant, but i dont want to hassle anyone or heap on any more work for anyone when they need it least. What do you guys think i should do? I was gonna e-mail, but for the reasons above i thought id ask 1st.

Thanks for all the help guys.

Cheers,

[Fibbles]

The mini pump has the same rating as the Eheim 1046 and it goes a little higher, plus it has that neato looking ressy attached to it. I just bought a Timmer Coolpump 700 for another project, and that's what I'd call little ^_^

Distilled water with some sort of anti corrosion inhibitor. I use Aqua Computer AC fluid and had a terrible experience with Water Wetter before that (gunk, buildup, problems). The UV die Aqua Computer sells, called Glowmotion (or Bluemotion if buying the deep and rich blue one) is quite nice. I use the green in my setup and it glows very brightly and nicely, it also comes in clear blue. There's also other color dyes, but I have no experience with them. I tend to be an Aqua Computer fanboy (or that could just mean little tubing fanboy:huh: ). I have my GPU routed first mostly because I keep it overclocked more than the CPU (I sometimes OC my CPU to 3.4, but I never run it 24/7 for some reason - I'm wierd!). I know a person who has everything routed oddly, from his Chipset to CPU then GPU to rad solely to hide the tubing, and no component seems to be having an issue with it. The only thing I have a peeve about is I put my rad after my main (CPU, GPU, CS) blocks with the leftovers going to my hard drives.

[Darv]

Any G1/4 or G1/8 parts should be fine. Those are what Alphacool and AquaComputer use and you can easily find push fit connectors for both sizes.

When I finally get round to having a GPU block I'm going to have it before the CPU becasue it's so much easier. It shouldn't make too much difference.

Distilled water with AC Fluid in it is completely clear so theres no need to worry about that.

For a drain point you can get valves that you can open when you want to empty the loop. You can then connect them to a T connector or have it come from the res. I've not had to empty my loop yet so I'm not sure how I'm going to go about it :lol:

You may have to wait a while before you can start ordering anything from Pug, so if you're desperate for it now then you may want to think about buying it direct.

[Risky]

you can get 10mm fittings for any european thread, but there's a choice I avoid 1/8 as its restrictive relative to the tube I'm using.




Regarding the Dual Res I 've attached an illustration.

[Da_Rude_Baboon]

I have my GPU before my CPU and it hasnt affected performance at all. A T-piece and a sealing connector, as risky pointed out is probably the best way of draining the system. :)

[Starbuck3733T]

Shameless plug on my EZ drain technique.

http://www.uploadit.org/Starbuck3733T/drain2.jpg

Its a fitting for tapping into a water line for an ice maker (for your 'fridge) screwed and sealed w\ goop into a 1/2" ID tube union. Just unscreew the smaller fitting w\ the tiny hose and close the valve when you're done.

[Risky]

Of course I had to make it more complicated:
http://www.veryrisky.co.uk/webimages/nowwearetwo008.jpg

blead line plus option to loop another block in for testing.

[DanMcr]

Thanks guys. You've been loads of help.

The only 1/8" fittings im going to need are for the aquatube and more than likely the GPU block. Will this completely nacker the flow or am i alright?

As for the drain point, i was thinking about using one of those 1/4" 1 into 2x10mm pushfit things on the outlet of the bottom res. One going to the pump, and the other going to one of them non leak quick disconnect couplings. Then i can just plug on the other half of the coupling with some tubing to drain it all as and when. What do you think?

On the subject of flow. Am i alright to use elbows and such. Ive heard people saying these dont make a great deal of difference in these setups. Only i can think of a couple of places they might help a lot.

Alphacool do a 1/4" top res (aquatube rip off), which i was originally looking at to keep the fittings simple, but after seeing the aquatube with an "aquajet" insert thingy, wow. I want one. :)
Im now planning on a horizontal mount at the top, so i can "watch the flow". :p At least that way ill know if my pump dies.
One question though, how the hell do you fill the buggers up? I suppose you could fill it up a bit, bolt the top on and repeat, but thats a right pain in the arse!

This is all probably going to look very nice, but is it going to work well? If it comes down to a couple of degrees worse than a good system, i dont really care, but if it just going to simply replace my standard a64 HSF, then its a lot of money wasted.

I wish i never looked into this now. My wallet is hiding from me. :eek:

Cheers.

[Darv]

1/8 fittings are more restrictive than 1/4 but it won't make too much difference. I doubt you would even see a difference in temps.

Elbows aren't going to make a difference either.

If you mount the Aquatube horizontaly then there are a few ways to fill up the system. You could fill it before you mount it. Or tip the computer up so that it is at the top. Or else you could get a second res that attaches to the pump.