First Time WC Rig - Help a Rookie

[Equalsk]

Hey Guys

This is my first post on the forum so "Hello to all of you!"

Needless to say I'm building my first Watercooled rig (yes, capital W :D) and have been reading lots of guides and forums recently to sponge as much information as possible as I started from knowing nothing about Watercooling at all.

I haven't gotten into Watercooling for overclocking reasons (although that will definately factor into the build later) and not so I can put lots of pretty lights in the rig as I don't currently have a window. I've done it because it's something I've never done before and it's a major experiment for me. If I can get this up and running I may add a window and some UV stuff later but for now this is purely experimental. :D (Hooray for being a bloke)

I'm going to explain my plan as clearly as I can and have even drawn a diagram or two to help me. Firstly I'll list my kit so far:

Case: Silverstone Temjin TJ07 (black)
CPU Block: Swiftech Storm G4
Radiator: Thermochill PA120.3 (triple 120mm rad)
Reservoir: XSPC 5.25" Bay Reservoir - Clear
Pump: Undecided !! (any suggestions would be appreciated)
GPU Block: Undecided on whether to bother cooling this

All the actual PC components such as motherboard, CPU etc have not been finalised at all. The exact models will depend on availability by the time I get some cash together. I plan on getting an Intel Core Duo 2 at the moment and will definately be getting no less than an 8800GTX graphics card. As I said, it depends on what becomes available in the coming months.

Now onto the plan!


To show the basic idea so far (not including GPU cooling at the moment) I have a few diagrams below. I will hyperlink them rather than show them directly for poor 56k users (get with times, old fogies :P).

First is the case:

Silverstone Temjin TJ07 (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/Equalsk/01425i13424100.jpg)
This is the silver version but you get the idea. That vent on the bottom goes right through the case from side to side and is where I plan on housing my radiator. The picture doesn't show how big this case is, the bottom can easily hold a big radiator, a pump AND a PSU. Believe me :P

This is a diagram (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/Equalsk/temjininside.jpg) of my general layout (not finalised, waiting for your feedback). I think it's pretty straight forward to understand.

Now the general bits are out of the way, I'm going to mention my reasoning behind the design and would definately like some feedback and some suggestions on pumps as I still don't quite grasp some of the concepts behind them.

Firstly I've gone for the Swiftech Storm G4 Universal Waterblock. Because of its jet impingement style waterblock it requires a high powered pump to get the best performance out of it. This is the first thing I need your help on. I know that head pressure is a very important thing when looking at powerful pumps but I also shouldn't forget flow rate and even how many watts the pump puts into the water.
Having read many forums and reviews, the consensus seems to be the Iwaki M20-RZ as the best pump you can have followed by things like the Eheim series and Laing D5s.
I can't seem to find an Iwaki to buy ANYWHERE in the UK so I'm probably lookin at more readily available pumps. Any suggestions?

Secondly I'll explain my loop (see diagram). I'm having a 5.25" res as I can put mount it high up in the system to bleed out air and also to gravity feed the pump so it's always primed.
I went for a big radiator just because I can house it. I realise it may not offer much extra performance over a dual rad intially because I'm only cooling the CPU, but if I decide to cool the GPU (which I will come to shortly) I figured I'd have a larger one.
The rest is pretty self explanatory.

I've gone for 1/2" ID tubing and barbs on every component for flow reasons so that's already sorted.

Erm, I can't think of anything else to put in here about the loop. Moving on!

There's a question I've wanted answering for a while but can't find one in a guide anywhere. Here goes:

I'm planning on adding a GPU block into the loop in the future. It will be a non-impingement high flow design so should fit in easily after the G4. However, I'm not sure what to do with the loop setup for this.

Would the water come straight from the CPU and into the GPU and then to the radiator, or would it go from the CPU to another radiator (if so, what size?) and then to GPU? Or do we get complicated and start using Y splitters and dual rads etc?

Any advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated as it's one of the only things I haven't been able to research on my own.


Erm, I think that's about it. If there's anything I've missed or any horrible design flaws I've made, please let me know. I'd hate to have it explode in my face. Are there any rookie errors in there? I've left a lot of minor details out such as coolant as I've already looked into all that.

I really look forward to chewing the fat on this one as I really do wanna get this right first time :D

Thank you to you all in advance! :toast:

[Fibbles]

The simplest setup is usually the best. You can order the parts any way you want as the difference in temps from one part to another will be minimal (that means: pump - CPU - rad or pump - rad - CPU; it doesn't matter). Also, whatever route yields the shortest tubing runs is best.

For pumps, since your working with 1/2" tubing you might look into the Laing D5. It has a built in rheostat to fine tune the flow/noise to your liking and can pack quite a punch. The Laing DDC is another option and it excells in high head pressure, which is good for impingement style blocks like the Storm G4 (the G4 does not actually require "a high powered pump" to get the most out of it: high head pressure is what it "requires", although Cathar designed it to work well with very minimal flow and even a high pressure 8mm ID tubing setup will yield good performance). Most water cooling pumps will not run dry and if they do, it's bye-bye pump :h34r: You don't need to have the res at the very top, just as long as it feeds the pump inlet. Aside from a res, a T-line is another good option as is an airtrap (check out DutchCedar's case mods for creative ideas).

A GPU block is up to you, but since many stock coolers are noisy (the cooler on my 7900GT is really loud and has a nasty whine when it's on my left :angry: ), water is often used. It won't kill your flow and can offer excellent cooling too (water cooling my 6800GT dropped it from 50+ C down to 34C) Danger Den's Maze 4, CoolTechnica's AquaXtreme or something from from EK water blocks are very acceptable alternatives if you do decide to cool your GPU.

Have you bought the parts already? Thermochill's radiators are better than Black Ice rads, although they're expensive. Heatercores still offer very good cooling performance and are usually less than half of the "made-for-PC" radiators, especially if you buy them direct instead of from a watercooling stores (Danger Den charges $34 for a core than can be found for $15).

If that info sucks, it's cause the past 6 hours of CS: Source have made me numb to the outside world and my ears hurt -_- I need a stand-alone USB mic so I can use my Sennheiser phones instead of this crappy USB headset.

[Equalsk]

Thanks mate, that's some good info :thumb:

Unfortunately I have indeed already bought the radiator. I was originally looking at a Thermochill radiator but they were out of stock wherever I was looking so I opted for a BlackIce. If a Thermochill becomes available before I fit my build together then I may get one and just sell/trade the BlackIce's.

I was looking at getting a Laing DDC but I hear that if you fit a better top like an Alphacool then it can increase the performance. Is this true? And if so, which top would you recommend? I was looking at either the Alphacool or PetraTech Pro/Ultra.

So I can use two radiators if the pump is good, but how will that affect performance (if it does at all) and will it offer any extra cooling?

I have a feeling that most of this is going to be trial and error anyway :magic:

EDIT: I've looked into the Thermochill radiators and there appear to be two main models, the HE and the PA. The HE has higher fin density while the PA is lower fin density. Other than that they are identical. Is it as simple as high density = better cooling with high CFM fans, while low density = better cooling with low CFM fans? Or am I missing something?

[Psykotik]

Hi Equalsk, welcome to WizD :welcome:

Regarding the PA and HE series rads, that's pretty much on the money IIRC (haven't been over any stats recently but I did have a PA 160 running in a rig for a month or so) and I thought that the HE series was going to be discontinued when the renewed 120/240/360 based on the PA design arrived?

If you're after a PA160, I still have it in a box somewhere I think :-)

[Equalsk]

According to the Thermochill website, you're correct. The HE series has been discontinued.

I really appreciate the offer of a 160 but I remembered that although I'd ordered the radiator already it wasn't due to ship until later this week so I've had the order changed. :D Plus I think that a 160 might be just a fraction too big.

Naturally I've sat and read some reviews and comparisons on the TCPA120 and it does indeed seem to offer better performance due to lower restriction so I should be getting one at some point.

I've also decided to get an XSPC 5.25" Bay Reservoir. It's clear acrylic so I can see the water through the front of the case and judging by pictures it's also a snug fit. I dislike gaps around my bays. Add to that a blue LED and the functionality of the thing and it's a winning reservoir. I suggest you look it up as it's got some interesting bits in it :thumb:

All I really need to do now is decide on a pump and I'm a happy man.

Oh, and as a side thought, do you think that putting some form of ducting between the radiator and the fans may add to the performance? Just to eliminate the deadspot since the PA series only require very low CFM fans.

[Da_Rude_Baboon]

I would go for a Liang DDC for your setup. IIRC the plexi tops to the pump increase flow but reduce the overall head pressure, with the G5 i would go for the greater head pressure.

[Equalsk]

I'll post the specs that lead me to believe that different pumps can do different things:

(I've deleted a load of rubbish)


DDCT-01 Specifications (w/18W DDC-2):
Model: DDCT-01
Max. Head Pressure (at 12V): 8.1 psig (18.68 feet - 5.7m)
Max. Discharge (at 12V): 3.5 GPM (210 GPH - 13.25 LPM/795 LPH)
Max. Head Pressure (at 13.8V): 10.1 psig (23.3 feet - 7.1m)
Max. Discharge (at 13.8V): 3.99 GPM (239.4 GPH - 15.1 LPM/906 LPH)


Stock DDC- 1 Ultra (18W) Specifications:
Nominal Voltage: 12 VDC
Operating Voltage range: 8 - 13.2 VDC
Minimum Starting Voltage: 9 VDC
Nominal Power (@12 V): 18 W
Nominal Current (@12 V): 1.46 Amp
Maximum Head: 20.2 ft (6.1 m)
Maximum Discharge: ~ 120 GPH (454 LPH)
Maximum Pressure: 22 PSI (1.5 BAR)


Stock DDC-1 Pro (10W) Specifications:
Nominal Voltage: 12 VDC
Operating Voltage range: 6 - 13.2 VDC
Nominal Power (@12 V): 8.3 W
Nominal Current (@12 V): .69 Amp
Maximum Head: 13.05 ft (4 m)
Maximum Discharge: ~ 92.4 GPH (350 LPH)
Maximum Pressure: 22 PSI (1.5 BAR)



Am I misunderstanding what they mean? Are these specs relating to the model of pump rather than the top fitted?
I realise there are different wattages mentioned but I was unsure as to how this was implemented and what it meant.

The pump is the last thing for me to decide on. I've bought the rest of the kit now :D I might update the top post later.


Edit: I may as well post this question here to keep everything in once place for me.

What Ohm resistor would I need to solder in place to give a circuit the impression an LED was still there? As you might have guessed I'm removing some LEDs but I obviously can't short them out or my fan controller will be bust. I'm basically going to wire all lights up to a single front panel mounted closed switch that can turn all lights on or off :D

Edit 2: Hmm, having read some bits and pieces on Google it seems to depend on the voltage/current being supplied to the LED and the type of LED. For the record I want purple LEDs and I'm not sure what the current supply power is. I could get a multimeter and test, though :)

Edit 3: Can you even get purple LEDs that aren't UV? I'm sure I've seen them before. I'm sure it was a Tricolour LED that was blue and red and when you activate both it's purple. Can anyone point me to a UK supplier? - I realised I'd made a mistake searching for Purple LEDs and instead found that I should search for Violet. However, the only supplier seems to be Maplin and they only do a 5mm version. I can drill the holes to take a 5mm LED but would prefer a 3mm version. Apart from that they're charging £3.22 per LED which is daylight robbery. Considering I need 10 that's £32 :angry:

If anyone knows a supplier that sells Violet LEDs in the UK either in 3mm or 5mm then I'd like to know. :D

[fivecheebs]

You should be able to replace the LEDs with a plain old piece of wire, but it might be prudent to go with a diode instead.

If you cant find the 3mm violet LEDs then you could use red/blue bicolour and just connect both colours up to the same power supply. It depends on if you have a common anode, or a common cathode as to whether you connect them to the +ve or -ve.

[ỒĊBłůē]

I'd be inclined to simply remove the LED from the circuit and see if works okay :dremel:

An LED is only an ancilliary output with a very small current draw; most likely fed from a seperate circuit to the fans. I'd just try running without them :shrug:

[Equalsk]

I'll certainly give that a try.

I've found a set of bi-colour LEDs that can output purple light when both sides are activated and only costs £10 for 10. I've ordered one to give it a test. Oh, and these ones are handy because they can connect straight to a 12v source so I should easily be able to adapt them to do what I want.

Now I just need to find a beautiful looking closed switch to mount on the front of the case to control the lights :D

Oh, and still need to decide on a pump. Leaning towards the Laing DDC but would still like some clarification on the different tops based on what I posted above.

I really appreciate all the help so far. Things are going very well! :wiz:

[GodsUnicorn]

Would it be possible to use blue LED's with a red filter, or red with a blue filter or even white with a purple filter.
I have just tried shining a blue LED through a red sweet paper (raspberry ruffle) and it produced a purple light.
I realise this may not be of any use to you depending on where the LED's will be placed, but if it is I'll even help you eat the sweets if you like.

[Fibbles]

Oh, and as a side thought, do you think that putting some form of ducting between the radiator and the fans may add to the performance? Just to eliminate the deadspot since the PA series only require very low CFM fans.

Yes, it will help performance. Radiator shrouds and provide space between the fan and rad for better dead-zone elimination. They can be bought at any WC shop or can be made somewhat easily too.

There is a decent selection of tops for the Laing DDC. Alphacool does a clear plexi top that adds 3 G1/4" threads and another top that adds a filltank (a direct reservoir unit so the pump never has to be run dry or be w/out fluid - filltanks usually make bleeding easily). Petra's Cooling shop in the US offers one made of Delrin and I think it has wider channels than the Alphacool one, but I'm not sure how much oif a difference it makes.

I've got a few purple LEDs (both 3 and 5mm) around here and they're not UV, so they do exist.

[Da_Rude_Baboon]

Stock DDC- 1 Ultra (18W) Specifications:
Nominal Voltage: 12 VDC
Operating Voltage range: 8 - 13.2 VDC
Minimum Starting Voltage: 9 VDC
Nominal Power (@12 V): 18 W
Nominal Current (@12 V): 1.46 Amp
Maximum Head: 20.2 ft (6.1 m)
Maximum Discharge: ~ 120 GPH (454 LPH)
Maximum Pressure: 22 PSI (1.5 BAR)


The extra head pressure (the pumps ability to push past restrictions) on the Ultra would be better suited to the storm as its a very restrictive block.

[Equalsk]

Would it be possible to use blue LED's with a red filter, or red with a blue filter or even white with a purple filter.
I have just tried shining a blue LED through a red sweet paper (raspberry ruffle) and it produced a purple light.
I realise this may not be of any use to you depending on where the LED's will be placed, but if it is I'll even help you eat the sweets if you like.
I think that the filters would probably get in the way a little, but I definately like the idea of eating lots of sweets :D

Yes, it will help performance. Radiator shrouds and provide space between the fan and rad for better dead-zone elimination. They can be bought at any WC shop or can be made somewhat easily too.

There is a decent selection of tops for the Laing DDC. Alphacool does a clear plexi top that adds 3 G1/4" threads and another top that adds a filltank (a direct reservoir unit so the pump never has to be run dry or be w/out fluid - filltanks usually make bleeding easily). Petra's Cooling shop in the US offers one made of Delrin and I think it has wider channels than the Alphacool one, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes.

I've got a few purple LEDs (both 3 and 5mm) around here and they're not UV, so they do exist.
Thanks for the info. I don't know whether my radiator comes with a shroud or not so I'll wait and see when it arrives.
I know a shop down the road from me that sells the Petra top so maybe I'll check it out.
Hmm, I found a site that sells LEDs that are half blue/half red so when viewed from the top down they should provide a purple light. Also they're ready to be connected to a 12v source straight out of the box which should make life easy. The only down side is that they're 5mm, but a drill should widen the 3mm mounting holes I have.

The extra head pressure (the pumps ability to push past restrictions) on the Ultra would be better suited to the storm as its a very restrictive block.
What about the flow rate? It seems to be quite low compared to other pumps.

[fivecheebs]

The flow rating is best considered for unrestrictive loops. Alot of modern blocks are restrictive by design, particularly the storm, which is where the head pressure comes into play.

If you put a restrictive block in a loop powered by a high flow low head pump it will kill the flow rate altogether (flow is laminar through the whole loop). Head pressure can be thought of as the pushing force. The better it can push the water past the restrictions, the better the flow is along the whole loop.

[Equalsk]

Makes sense.

So as long as the head pressure is sufficient to get the water through the Storm at a decent speed, the flow rate should still be sufficient even if it is a little lower than the low head pumps that have high flow rate?

I think I'm going to go for the Laing DDC2 with the Petra delrin top on it. The DDC2 is a little louder than the DDC1, but it's a better pump and having chosen the Storm I knew I was going for performance more than silence. Although I hear the DDC2 is actually quite quiet when installed properly.

On that note, I assume it's good practice to mount the pump on some form of rubber grommet or foam? Which one is the best? Any particular reccomendations?

As soon as I get the pump my Watercooling kit will be complete. Then it's a matter of getting parts as I can afford them. I'll also post some pics of my purple mod when I get it working :D

[Fibbles]

Yes. Pumps with a very high flow rate and low head pressure are not very good for current PC water cooling. Years ago they were best because the blocks were relatively simple channels, but with todays designs, head pressure is better than all-out flow.

The DDC is very quiet. Placing it on top of foam or using the rubber mounts will help eliminate vibrations and that will reduce noise. It depends on which works in your application really.

I place my own pump (an Innovatek HPPS: a 12v modified Eheim 1046 with 6+ feet of head pressure and 150 GPH), which is already very quiet, on a pad of foam and it really kills the vibrations.

Pro Cooling(.com) has some info you might find interesting too. They're (or were) very hardcore into high flow water cooling.

[fivecheebs]

So as long as the head pressure is sufficient to get the water through the Storm at a decent speed, the flow rate should still be sufficient even if it is a little lower than the low head pumps that have high flow rate? In the situation i was trying to explain, i'd expect the flow rate of the loop with the pump with high head pressure to be better, but i was taking hypothetical pumps so its really irrelevant. If you were to add more restrictions, other blocks, to your loop at a later date then they will have less impact on the overall performance of the loop.
On that note, I assume it's good practice to mount the pump on some form of rubber grommet or foam? Which one is the best? Any particular reccomendations?The most effective way for me has been the rubber isolation bolts. They work best when the force applied (gravity in this case) is perpendicular to the mounting direction, so you need to screw them into a vertical surface. The DDC is great for mounting hole options though so that wont be a problem for you.

As soon as I get the pump my Watercooling kit will be complete. Then it's a matter of getting parts as I can afford them. I'll also post some pics of my purple mod when I get it working :D

Feel free to start a worklog in the chop shop :thumb:

[Da_Rude_Baboon]

The most effective way for me has been the rubber isolation bolts. They work best when the force applied (gravity in this case) is perpendicular to the mounting direction, so you need to screw them into a vertical surface.

I.E. mount it in a drive bay. :-p

[fivecheebs]

yes :D, but not exclusively :-p

[Equalsk]

Thanks guys! Then as soon as I have some spare cash I'll order my pump in which case I should have the kit ready to go! :D

[Equalsk]

Just to confirm, I can mount my pump at any angle and it shouldn't affect performance, right?

[fivecheebs]

I've mounted pumps in different plains a few times. It hasnt made a difference yet, so you should be OK. Just make sure it has some water in it before you switch it on.

[Equalsk]

Ah, that puts my mind at rest. It's due to the way the DDC pump is configured when it has the Petra top on. It will need to be lying on its side for a less restrictive loop. Will give it a shot next week when the last parts arrive.

Also, for those that helped me with the LED problems, much thanks! I removed the LEDs from the board and everything else continued to function. So I've drilled the 3mm holes to 5mm holes and the test LED was a perfect fit and gave a nice purple glow. :wiz:

Now I just need to wire these to the res LED and to the cold cathode inverter and then attach that to a closed switch! Then I can turn all my case lights off with one front mounted switch.

*rubs hands with glee*

[Equalsk]

Helloooo!

I haven't been here in a while due to work constraints but I've come back to ask a question about my pump. It's the Laing DDC with the Petra top, in case you're wondering.

I've put the loop together and everything seems alright. Filled with water, primed pump properly, got rid of all the air, works fine after the problem has rectified itself. Read below for an explanation!

My pump seems to have trouble starting. When I activate it it spins up and then goes off, and then it does it again and again for about 20 seconds before it kicks in and starts off. After that it runs just fine.

I guess this isn't meant to happen? What could be causing it? I'd be surprised if the pump is broken as it works afterwards. Power supply maybe?

Also, it makes a little bit of a high pitched whine. I guess this is just normal because of the motor? Will it fade once the pump wears in or can I sound proof it at all?

Cheers for any help! Can't figure out why the pump won't start properly. :S

Edit: I dunno whether pumps just need wearing in (having never used one before) but after a few hours of running the pump I decided to test again. The problem seems to have mostly gone away. *shrugs*

[jaguarking11]

Helloooo!

I haven't been here in a while due to work constraints but I've come back to ask a question about my pump. It's the Laing DDC with the Petra top, in case you're wondering.

I've put the loop together and everything seems alright. Filled with water, primed pump properly, got rid of all the air, works fine after the problem has rectified itself. Read below for an explanation!

My pump seems to have trouble starting. When I activate it it spins up and then goes off, and then it does it again and again for about 20 seconds before it kicks in and starts off. After that it runs just fine.

I guess this isn't meant to happen? What could be causing it? I'd be surprised if the pump is broken as it works afterwards. Power supply maybe?

Also, it makes a little bit of a high pitched whine. I guess this is just normal because of the motor? Will it fade once the pump wears in or can I sound proof it at all?

Cheers for any help! Can't figure out why the pump won't start properly. :S


This is a know issue with that pump. I would contact laing and ask them to replace it. But before you do make sure the connections are solid. Also as far as sound insulating the pump, it really depends on how the pump is running. Does it heat up? If not, is it near a fan? If the pump does not heat up much with ought any airflow across it then I guess it would be a safe bet that it could be insulated.

Another thing to try is to actually put the pump on a fan controller (make sure the fan controller can handle the amperage) then lower the voltage. In my experience that will increase load temps about 1-2c and lower noise allot. I however don't know how these pumps are built therefore I dont know if they can even be under-volted.

FYI, I run my pump @5v and my load temps climbed 1-2c putting my load in the 47c range. The idle is still the same and the normal usage temps are around the same. But I don't run a g4.

[Equalsk]

Cheers dude!

I've been testing the pump consitently since my last post and it start 9 times out of 10 after a second or two pause. I don't understand what the problem is.

I'll see how it goes for the next day or two and if it's still rubbish I'll try an RMA.

[Equalsk]

I found out something about the Laing DDC pumps that you might be interested in.

The latest revision (blue impeller) that everyone stocks has a few features that I was not aware of.

When you first turn the power on the pump won't start immediately as it has a delay on it to let the mobo/cpu/ram boot etc

And after that if your pump doesn't start properly for whatever reason (normally not enough power) then it will continue to restart every few seconds to try and get running.

This explains why I've been having problems so I'm going to try my loop on a much better PSU and see what happens :D

[fivecheebs]

Ahh! Thanks for the update. :thumb:

[Equalsk]

Yeah, turns out it was just my crappy old PSU.

I plugged it into the Daddy of all PSUs, the Enermax Galaxy 1KW and it works every time. Sounds even more powerful than before.

Thank God for that!


Now leave me alone while I weep at my empty wallet. Wasn't due to buy that until after my next paycheck... :duh:

[fivecheebs]

hehe! Each and every one of us have done the self same thing :lol: