Best bang for buck choices...

[Pug]

If you haven't already done so, nip out and buy yourself the latest copy of CustomPC (Issue 6 - March 2004). See that geezer on page 117? That's me, that is. :)
As a result of winning the month's Readers' Drives competition, with the submission of my modded Chieftec Dragon (http://www.wizdforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=28) I'm charged with the enviable task of selecting £1000's worth of hardware as a prize, with one caveat - that it was reviewed in the same issue.

Choices in the current mag which initially appeal to me -
A DVD burner from the Labs test.
£182.13 - Plextor PX=708A
£113.09 - LiteOn LDW-811S
The choice of one of the two 8x ones in the line-up stands to reason but which, the Plex or LiteOn?
Last time I had the choice between these two brands (CDRW), I went for the Plex but had second thoughts for ages afterwards as to whether I'd done the right thing <bang:buck>wise.
When I heard they were reviewing DVD burners this issue, I'd hoped to see the NEC and Pioneer in the line up (previous recommendations I'd heard) but I'm sure either of these two would do me nicely.
What am I getting for the extra £70 here?

Memory
£146.57 - Kingmax MPXC22D-38KT3R

Not something I'd originally considered as I already run 512Mb PC3500 in this rig but a Gig of this would let me retire what I have into my other DDR box and subsequently put the PC2700 from there into my Northwood celly box to replace the SDRam it's currently running.
I'm quite swayed by their recommendation of the Kingmax PC3500, holding higher speed/lower price above higher price/lower latency as a consideration in the tests. I'd considered the cheaper Crucial PC3200 but as I run high async FSBs, I ruled it out for the sake of my CPU overclock.


That's it really. :unsure:

The reviews seem a bit thin in this particular issue. Apart from the Lab tests mentioned and a few game reviews (from which I'll probably grab NFS:Underground), there's a choice of the following kit, none of which I would have bought intentionally without the prize being offered :-

£999 - Microland CP6.01 Hmm, like I need another PC here... with that said, it has got a DVDrw, a 9800Pro, a TFT (albeit a 15") and a few other goodies with which I could upgrade the other rigs here (then mebbe mod the case to match Hexadragon too).
Worth considering if they have to stick firmly to the rules for whatever reason.
£2,115 - Voodoo PC Envy M855 Budget essentially rules this out.
£234.94 - EPoX Mini Me I did toy with the idea of an SFF unit to replace my PC50/ECS combo (and mebbe give the PC50 away as a WizD compo prize) but I'm not sure that I'm totally grabbed by this particular offering.
£168 - Chenming FurFusion SOHO HK7N As above. The upgrade path of this board isn't much better than my A7V266-E in my work rig either.
£148.44 - Asus SK8 Not enough of a worthwhile upgrade over my NF7-S, plus, I'd have to buy an A64 chip to boot.
£17.57 - Akasa AK855 Ooh, look, a heatsink! How quaint... :p
£10.58 - Arctic Cooling Silencer 64 Ooh, another one. They still make these things then?
£299 - iRiver iFP-595T MP3 player. A sizeable chunk of the budget and I couldn't justify the use of one that much.
£105.69 - Antec P160 If I got really stuck, this could well sneak onto the shortlist. I don't need another 4-bay tower as such but if I got this one (being a popular choice), I could see which 120mm rads would fit those mountings, for future customer support reference.
£39.36 - Jeantech Light Fusion I have as much aversion to cheaply constructed cases as I do to cheap quality PSUs - this has both! Eek!
£99.99 - InterVideo Home Theatre Software & a remote... the interface looks a bit clunky really and it's not something I have a need for - my Cordless mouseman optical works well enough for me for remote navigation, I also have a Hauppauge remote and even media transport controls on my keyboard, so I wouldn't really gain much from this.
______________

With the fact withstanding that PCWorld (who sponsor the comp) have graciously bent the rules for people in the past and allowed choices from previous magazine issues where stock permits, I wondered if it would be too much to consider a selection of parts from the CPC Elite category - basically their top hardware choice from previous issues' test & reviews.
If this was possible, this would increase my options to include the following -

Monitor
£320.78 - Iiyama ProLite E431S TFT monitor
Mmm, the most expensive purchase (bar the complete PC option) I've yet considered (and I only upgraded to a 19" CRT last year). I can't find my copy of issue 5 here anywhere to read up on it again but I could happily live with more desk space being a partial result of my prize.

Gfx cards
£295.98 - Excalibur Radeon IceQ9800
or
£145 - Gainward FX PowerPack Ultra 960 Golden Sample
I'm a little wary of ATi's potential driver/games compatibility and nVidia's DX9 futureproofing issues but could be swayed by a Radeon XT, 9800 non-pro or a cut-price FX5900, had there been one on offer.
One of the Excalibur's strong points is apparently its cooling sub-system (something which will be swapped out for watercooling in any event as soon as it gets here), so is this a good buy with this in mind or is there another contender I missed which I should get on my knees and beg for as an alternative?
______________

Out of the rest, I'm also considering

Speakers
£259 - Logitech z680s
There's also the TT7700s at only £110 but I can imagine the wistful thoughts if I plumped for these in preference.
I currently use the analogue out of my SoundStorm but given the optical capability for true Dolby 5.1, it would make a nice upgrade from my Altecs & Eminence setup.

P4 mobo
£154.04 - Abit IC7 Max3
A worthy successor to the ECS nasty that currently houses my 2.0litre Northy Celeron.
It'd be nice to finally work the watercooling in that rig and bump up its gaming ability. The added bonus here is that it's the same board mnpctech is considering for his w/cing project, so I could replicate his (and other potential customers') planned setup here first to test possible cooling configs.

Shuttle SFFs
£245.58 - XPC SB74G2 (Intel)
£248.72 - XPC SN85G4 (Athlon64)
Another possibility, rehouse the celly in the intel one or mebbe bite the bullet and go A64?
There's not much point in me taking the A64 route unless I pick up a chip too and whichever platform, I'd want to try & manage to squeeze w/cing in there somehow, so it would be preferable to see the cases hands-on first to see how feasible it would be.
This would be an extravagant choice as I don't realistically need an extra PC here right now.

HDD
£95.01 - Hitachi Deskstar 7K250
Mmm, more HDD storage. An easy choice if I'm left with multiples of £100 change from previous choices. The need is slightly negated if I get the DVD burner (which I probably will) but as with RAM, it's hard to have too much storage space.
______________

Whaddya think?
Opinions on any of the choices are welcome, especially the Graphics card option, which is probably my biggest single dilemma.
Bearing in mind, it'll more than likely be watercooled within an hour and overclocked as far as it will go, what's a good choice here?


(One) initial possible shortlist I'd be happy with:

£113.09 - LiteOn LDW-811S
£320.78 - Iiyama ProLite E431S TFT monitor
£295.98 - Excalibur Radeon IceQ9800
£259 - Logitech z680s
-------------
£988.85 Total
If I added a bit to the change, I'd be able to snag one of these (http://www.bit-tech.net/review/285/) too, with any luck (which unfortunately, now reminds me how long I've been lusting after a decent wheel & pedals... :rolleyes: )

I'm sure that more memory and another HDD would benefit me but if so, where to make the sacrifice? Audio or visual?

Any other shortlist suggestions?

Tia,

Pug :)

[mnpctech]

A DVD burner from the Labs test.
£182.13 - Plextor PX=708A
£113.09 - LiteOn LDW-811S
The choice of one of the two 8x ones in the line-up stands to reason but which, the Plex or LiteOn?

Lite On.

They rated better than Plextor and gives you an extra $69 to spend!!


P4 mobo
£154.04 - Abit IC7 Max3
A worthy successor to the ECS nasty that currently houses my 2.0litre Northy Celeron.
It'd be nice to finally work the watercooling in that rig and bump up its gaming ability. The added bonus here is that it's the same board mnpctech is considering for his w/cing project, so I could replicate his (and other potential customers') planned setup here first to test possible cooling configs



Good thinking.... btw: how thick is the radiator you suggested to me?

[adwhitworth]

I'd go for the Liteon DVD-R instead of the Plextor. It isn't worth the extra.

I haven't checked the Abit website recently but it may be worth looking to see if the IC7-MAX3's support the new Prescott chips. Seems pointless buying a board when its useless for new chips straight away :rant:

The Iiyama is a good one. Go for it :D

If they'll bend the rules, would you have enough for a 9800XT? :)

[mrplow]

liteon make the dvd burners for sony now.


£320.78 - Iiyama ProLite E431S TFT monitor
Mmm, the most expensive purchase (bar the complete PC option) I've yet considered (and I only upgraded to a 19" CRT last year). I can't find my copy of issue 5 here anywhere to read up on it again but I could happily live with more desk space being a partial result of my prize.

You NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED this!
Get two, and i'll give one a good home :wub:

Seriouslah tho, it looks so good I was even considering spending a couple of weeks beer money ( :lol: ) on buying one myself.

[Pug]

Blimey, that was quick! :)

Bill, that's £70, so about $100 really. You're right of course, Lite-on's quality is up to speed, albeit a bit slower than the Plex - what I'm hoping to hear though is perhaps for the extra dosh that I'd be getting better media compatibility or ability to rip certain things better, bit for bit if the need should arise. They don't really cover that in the article.
It'd have to do quite a bit more though, so I doubt it's in the running really.
I need to check a couple of places like dvdrhelp.org (although I can't remember the exact addy right now) before I finally rest my mind on it.
Unless of course, they have these (http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/134) in stock at a favourable price, which might move the goalposts slightly...

I haven't checked the Abit website recently but it may be worth looking to see if the IC7-MAX3's support the new Prescott chips. Seems pointless buying a board when its useless for new chips straight away

Ooh, good point Adam. That's the sort of thing I hadn't thought of regarding the Intel route, y'see. Ta very muchly. B)

The Iiyama is a good one. Go for it
My thoughts too. *me nods*
[Edit] *...and beats off mrplow* :D

If they'll bend the rules, would you have enough for a 9800XT?
I'd like to hope so but if half the money for one would buy me a card I could watercool and subsequently clock to similar speeds, it would gain more favour with me.
Unless of course, the XT clocks far beyond anything else... that might be an incentive to shave the budget elsewhere.

[Grand Monkey]

Just like to say the iiyama is great, got one a couple of weeks ago and i adore it!

[Pug]

Hey thanks G_M. Welcome to WizD too. B)

What did you upgrade from out of interest? If it was a CRT, how do you find it in comparison? Any niggles?

[Grand Monkey]

Upgraded from a 17" Iiyama CRT, no niggles yet, the crt is still better at dvd playback, but for games the TFT is great. and even with DVDs its still watchable, unless you really start to look for artifacts! The custom pc review on it was pretty much spot on. I don't use the speakers so can't comment on them! Hope that helps a bit. if you need to know anything more specific on it i'll be happy to help!

[Pug]

Cool. That's fair enough comment - I'll more than likely use TV-out for DVD anyway and the 2D performance should be ok in native res. The game performance is what worried me most for a TFT, so that's it clinched for me.

Thanks. :)

(Like you, I feel the speakers will probably be vestigial but that's a non-issue really.)
I wish I could find my copy of Issue 5 to read up on it again... but I think you guys have swayed me regardless for that choice. B)

So that's now
£113.09 - LiteOn LDW-811S
£320.78 - Iiyama ProLite E431S TFT monitor
----------
£433.87

Halfway there... :)

[Grand Monkey]

oh, get the Logitech z680s and i will cry! i want them bad they are so great sounding! 2D performance on the iiyama is great too by the way. really cant recommend that monitor enough, its my newest toy! hehe! oh and its available in Black, which is what mine is.

[Pug]

Mmm, I'm extremely tempted by them but the Creative inspire 7700s are a lot cheaper and would give more to play with elsewhere.... (I don't have issue 2 to read up on them tho').
They'd also rule out a 9800XT (unless they let me add some cash to it) but still allow a 9800Pro (which will still be a massively worthwhile upgrade over my Ti200).

So the shortlist could then be

£113.09 - LiteOn LDW-811S
£320.78 - Iiyama ProLite E431S TFT monitor
£259 - Logitech z680s
-----------
£692.87 - leaving a smidgeon over £300 to play with.

The dilemma then would be should I get the
£295.98 - Excalibur Radeon IceQ9800
or the
£145 - Gainward FX PowerPack Ultra 960 Golden Sample (or mebbe a 9600 if offered)
plus
£146.57 - 2x512 Kingmax MPXC22D-38KT3R
?
:unsure:

[Monkeyharris]

the 680's must be amazing mate. iv had the 4.1 560's for a while now and they totally blow any other pc speakers away that i have heard, so adding proper 5.1 support plus extras such as a remote and optical in (i think :huh: ) would make them a must have for me :) u lucky B****** ;)

[Grand Monkey]

by the way you can easily overclock a 9800 pro to XT specs and more, and thats just on air cooling. obviously you don't get to monitor its temp or the overdrive function but it is quite a bit cheaper.

[Pug]

Yeah, I can't see me putting top dollar into an XT at this time realistically.

I'm just wondering if I'll be kicking myself 6 months down the line for having bought the Gainward for the sake of a Gig of RAM (or not, as the case may be).
Mid you. Being the 128MB version, it would give me the excuse to add GFX memory blocks to my loop... :D

The 680s are a definite now I think - I can't get the thought of them out of my head.

[Knipex]

Get the 9800 mate. Never skimp on graphics cards as I find they are normally the first thing I want to upgrade. Add the fact that at the price this is the only way you could justify getting one.


Its really free you see so you didnt just throw away £300 on a graphics card so I can play games!!! Geek logic

[mrplow]

Originally posted by Pug@Jan 30 2004, 12:45 PM
The Iiyama is a good one. Go for it
My thoughts too. *me nods*
[Edit] *...and beats off mrplow* :D
Well, I have to say I wasn't expecting that!

A bit shocking at first, but I never look a gift horse in the mouth..




LMAO!
Can't resist a good double-entendre.

Any closer to a decision?

[Pug]

*slaps mrplow with a wet trout* <_<
Any closer to a decision?
Well, I'm leaning towards Knipex's recommendation (well, it was the only one :p)
I'd thought the ram would be better as it's more work than play on this rig most of the time but at the price of it, it'll be easier for me to buy my own RAM in future than it would for me to stump up for a new card.

... plus - I just got wind of a new range of ATi ram coolers too! (I think I'm sold :D)

So it looks like I'm back to my original list then!

(One) initial possible shortlist I'd be happy with:

£113.09 - LiteOn LDW-811S
£320.78 - Iiyama ProLite E431S TFT monitor
£295.98 - Excalibur Radeon IceQ9800
£259 - Logitech z680s
-------------
£988.85 Total
Woohoo!
Thank you CustomPC :wub: (& even PCWorld too! <- never guessed I'd ever say that)
Now I just need to hope that they'll let me bend the rules enough to choose those bits. *crosses fingers*

[Pug]

Update - Well, I spun up to PCWorld in Swansea yesterday to see what they had in.
z640s - check
9800 - out the back (apparently)
DVDr - beige only (no biggie)
monitor - nope (only the 430s, not the 431s)
Bugger. Mez'd just bought Donnie Darko too.

Thing is, after checking around, apparently there's a new PCWorld opening more locally to me next weekend. After chatting to the guy in the Swansea store, he confirmed that they would have good stocks of things on hand for the launch, so I decided to wait for now and check out the possibility of doing the deed then. (Valentine's day, iirc)

[mrplow]

What a lovely valentines present to the one you love most -- you! :D

[Monkeyharris]

i mite happen to *ahem* work in said pc world should you require a stock check at the new store? u can pm me if you like? :unsure:

[mrplow]

How convenient!

*i smell corruption at the highest levels!* ;) :lol:


One of whatever pug orders for me too please monkey, ta lad :D

[Monkeyharris]

lol i can only check and hold stock i cant get it for free (unfortunately :( ;) )

[Pug]

Originally posted by Monkeyharris@Feb 10 2004, 10:00 PM
i mite happen to *ahem* work in said pc world should you require a stock check at the new store? u can pm me if you like?&nbsp; :unsure:
Wow! The world may be small but PCWorld is MASSIVE, innit! :lol: (Thanks m8)

I'm gonna try CustomPC later today (although the contact details had are locked away in the HDD from my dead rig) to see how I'm s'posed to go about claiming the prize.
I must admit tho', since I buggered my work rig (http://www.wizdforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=104), I've been more and more tempted by the Microland £999 PC (especially since it has a 9800Pro, DVDr and a whole bunch of other stuff to salvage my work rig with...)
Hmm, what to do?

[adwhitworth]

R..R...Ready Built PC's :blink:

What are they :D :p ;)

[Pug]

Handy bundles of joy to add new bits to every PC in your existing farm... :p ;) :D

[mrplow]

Not a bad idea, depends if the parts you'd actually want to harvest add up to a grand or not though...

[Pug]

Well I'm guessing but I imagine it'd be the review one from the CustomPC offices.
The way I see it, that would be the easiest way for PCWorld to provide anything "reviewed in the current issue", 'cos the mag quote suppliers for everything submitted {and I know PCWorld don't do RAM from every manufacturer in this month's shootout for a start ('cos I checked)}.

It's just under a grand too.

[Pug]

The other thing that I thought was they said in the mag that everything bar the cooling was well specced... & I can deal with that issue in no time! B)

[Pug]

*Update*

Went to PC world in Carmarthen to check it out - they had the 9800Pro and a beige LiteOn but no speakers and apparently the closest they had to the 431S was the 430S I'd seen at Swansea.

According to one of the guys there, the 430S is just the black version of the 431S. I thought the black version was the 431S-B. Anyone corroborate that for me?


It seems I have to go back through CustomPC to claim the prizes though.
Slight dilemma there - the contact details I had are locked away in my inbox on the drive from my dead rig. I've not managed to recover them yet, so therein lies my problem.
I'll try mailing the address in the mag tomorrow and see if I can reestablish contact that way.

Any more comments on the high-end parts versus complete PC bundle argument before I commit?
Input still appreciated. :)

[fillip]

would def. go for the parts over package.

There's gonna be some small thing about the Microland that'll bug ya. and as mrplow said though, are you gonna harvest the full £1000 from the Microland - prob not, though you will have some handy spares for testing/ saving your ass in an emergency.

personally i'd go for the parts you picked in the initial list (obviously permitting that you can get all of 'em through Rip-Off-World or Custompc)

At least you are guranteeing top quality parts!

.: Fillip :.

[Monkeyharris]

Originally posted by Pug@Feb 15 2004, 02:30 PM
*Update*

Went to PC world in Carmarthen to check it out - they had the 9800Pro and a beige LiteOn but no speakers and apparently the closest they had to the 431S was the 430S I'd seen at Swansea.

According to one of the guys there, the 430S is just the black version of the 431S. I thought the black version was the 431S-B. Anyone corroborate that for me?


It seems I have to go back through CustomPC to claim the prizes though.
Slight dilemma there - the contact details I had are locked away in my inbox on the drive from my dead rig. I've not managed to recover them yet, so therein lies my problem.
I'll try mailing the address in the mag tomorrow and see if I can reestablish contact that way.

Any more comments on the high-end parts versus complete PC bundle argument before I commit?
Input still appreciated. :)
ok well pc world do stock the new 640's but they are a relatively new stock so some stores might not have them, plus even when they do, there will only be 2 or less in at any time, so your local might not have any, ask them to do a stock check and if not get them to send some in from a local branch that does, with regards to the difference between the 430 and the 431 all the difference is, is that the 430 doesnt have built in speakers and the 431 does, there are thre colours of each type, silver, black and beige. The screens are identical, it just the speakers, which i doubt you will be using if you have you 640's ;) anyway hope that helps?

[Grand Monkey]

not strictly true the 430s is only d-sub as well, no dvi input. and i know its open to opinion but dvi gives a far better quality in my opinion with a lot less hassle to setup than d-sub. just my two penny's worth!

[mrplow]

If I was going to "spend" that much on a TFT I think I'd want DVI on it.

[Monkeyharris]

true i missed that one :)

[Pug]

Originally posted by Grand Monkey@Feb 16 2004, 08:50 AM
not strictly true the 430s is only d-sub as well, no dvi input. and i know its open to opinion but dvi gives a far better quality in my opinion with a lot less hassle to setup than d-sub. just my two penny's worth!
Excellent, thanks G_M. B)
That's exactly what I wanted to hear (I love this forum). :D

I'd checked the Iiyama* website and found that the actual panel were the same but with a few differences to the casing (like the speakers) but missed the DVI bit (and I'd take preference to that for the ability to hopefully dual head with my 19"er).


I didn't get a chance to mail CPC yet, couldn't get online all day. Another thing for tomorrow's to-do list then.

* (amazing how neither of the guys at PCworld would believe me that that was how you spelt Iiyama until they'd tried entering every permutation of the first 3 letters into the stock search using "L" instead of "I" in the first two, even when I showed them the web addy printed in the mag!
... but then again, I guess that with some of the people they deal with, the customer is rarely right. :lol: )

[Pug]

Well, I guess a follow up on this is long overdue eh?
To cut a long story short, PCWorld said ok to pretty much everything bar the 431s.
As an alternative tho', they offered a KiSS Coolview widescreen 17" with remote control, built-in tv tuner & picture-in-picture. ^_^
That kinda made up for it although I was kinda set on the Iiyama...

I've not really had a chance to use the 9800 or the DVDr in anger yet but the ability to dual-head easily with the 9800 has made life nice on more than one occasion.

The star of the show for me out of the lot so far has to be the z680s tho'.
I wow the kids & upset the neighbours every time I get carried away with a good film! :lol:
Now I know why every review of them I read refered to the THX certified sound as awesome... it's quite a fitting term. B)
Thx to all for the recommendations. :)