Pump Noise. SERIOUS noise

[Edd]

This is very frustrating. I've just put my watercooling loop back together after about 5 weeks of running on air. Previously there was quite an annoying clattering noise which I could put up with for a spell, but I thought that there was some air trapped, or the impellor was broken.

Taking it apart, there seems to be nothing wrong with the impellor. The teeth are intact and beyond that I don't see much else that could be wrong with it. I also bought a primer tank, thinking that it would be a lot easier to fill the system with, and the pump would not run dry.

After two hours of running and filling the entire loop, the pump has continued to make a rather deafening clattering noise. A LOT worse than before and it makes the PC totally unusable. I've bled air air and more air out of the system, and to be honest I fail to see how there can still be air trapped in the pump when it's got a res full of water attached to it.

Before I write it off totally, does anybody have any suggestions on what MIGHT be wrong with it that I could fix myself?

If not, Pug am I right in assuming it's under warantee?

I'm SO annoyed at this. I can't afford *anything* to add to the system now, or fix, so I'm counting on everything remaining functional for a long time to come. I'm also now left with a useless PC until it gets fixed.

[Darv]

Try submersing it in water to see if it has a leak that is letting air in. Can't think what else it would be.

[Edd]

I switched it on this morning (blind hope more than anything) and it SEEMED to be quieter, but I think that was just my initial thought as it's still as intrusive as ever.


The only thing I can think is that now I have a res AND an aquatube, perhaps there is still some air circulating that I can't actually find. I'm just running a repair install of XP, then I will switch it all off, turn it on its back and run again, topping up the AT to try and get rid of the air bubbles in that. I doubt it will work but I'm looking for anything that will stop me having to take the loop apart AGAIN.

Watercooling is a pain in the neck :(

[mashie]

You could simply have a too big pump (big flow low / pressure style)for the tube size causing the impellar to stall and rattle.

I use a 1046 for 6mm ID tube and 1048 for 1/2" ID, both dead silent after 9 and 32 months each.

[Starbuck3733T]

Or (ack!) the motor shaft bearings are going dead. If you let the pump run free (no restriction on the outlet) does it still make the noise? just feed it some water with nothing on the outlet and see if it sprays you in the face ;)

[mashie]

Like this?

http://www.mashie.org/hardforum/wc_005.jpg

[Edd]

I'll give that a go. I can get hold of an Eheim 1048 to test the loop with but not until Thursday. I'm just putting off draining the system really because it's such a hassle!

[Starbuck3733T]

Like this?

http://www.mashie.org/hardforum/wc_005.jpg

Yup. like that, but bend over and look into the outlet just as you plug things in. I did ;) First date with my 1250 was wet one! :o

[Nexxo]

Also, what's the setup? Sounds like you have two reservoirs. Are you perhaps getting a pressure drop and getting cavitation at the inlet of the pump?

We need some specs. Pump, hose diameter, description of the circuit.

[Knipex]

check your inlet connection.


I had the same problem turned out I was sucking air in through a semi loose connection..

[Edd]

For the record, this pump was originally silent, which leads me to believe that something is wrong with it.

Anyway, the fittings and tubing are all Plug&Cool.
The inlet to the pump is now direct from the primer tank, and I double-checked the inlet to the tank today and it was fine.

The loop is:

Primer -> Pump -> Twinplex -> Cuplex Evo -> Dual-fan rad -> Aquatube -> Back to primer


I started off by filling the primer tank, turning on the pump and refilling as necessary until the loop started to fill. I then let it clear more air (which used up another prier-tank worth of water) before topping up. I got it to the stage where both AT and Primer were full of water. Today I also turned it on its back and opened the AT instead, still no reduction in noise.

The pump also made this noise (though not as loud) in my previous setup (sans the Primer and with a Cuplex instead of the Evo) and Pug's initial thought was that the impellor was going, especially as occasionally the noise died away. But I've checked the teeth on that and they're fine, and this time the noise is consistent.

[J-Pepper]

is your pump an eheim...?

because it sounds like an eheim pump problem, it's well known and can be fixed by supergluing the pellor to the housing.

[Darv]

I still think it may be leaking somewhere in the actual pump. Try sticking it in a bucket of water of something and see if it still makes the noise.

[Edd]

I've been out all weekend so haven't had a chance to do anything, but hopefully today I can get the system drained and put the pump in the bath or something to see what happens.

J-Pepper, I heard about the superglue thing, but I thought that was for a slipping impellor. I've taken mine off and the teeth are still intact.

[Pug]

Edd, ygm.

If you can test it in a bucket, as suggested, it should ascertain whether it's the pump or not.
Nexxo, I'd replicated his loop and it won't be resistance cavitation with the two res's (he had the prob before getting the latest res).
Kev, he has a primer tank like yours now too - less likely to be an inlet air leak problem without tell tale bubbles accompanying it (but good thought, all the same)

[Edd]

Now I'm totally confused :confused:
I put it in the bath, switched it on and a huge jet of water shot out, and the pump was humming quietly away like it did when I first got it!
A further fully-submerged test reveals no air bubbles escaping from the housing.

I'm going to triple-check all the fittings on the other components AGAIN because this must mean that air is getting in *somewhere* in the rest of the loop!

[Edd]

Aha, I didn't catch them the first time around, but I've found air bubbles.

I took off the front of the pump to attach back to the primer tank, and put the pump back into the bath of water for the time being. As it submerged I noticed a stream of air bubbles coming from the back of the casing!

[fivecheebs]

bummer... at least you know now where the problem lies though.

[Edd]

Yeah, and that means I can get it sent to Pug tomorrow and replaced because there's a definite fault. An inconvenience, but at least I know it's almost sorted!

[Pug]

Pump received Edd, thanks.
I'll test it this weekend and see where we stand warranty-wise.
I must admit, I've never heard of an Eheim leaking except where it's been cracked but I can see what you mean - there's no apparent damage to the eye, is there? :unsure:

Will keep you updated.

[Starbuck3733T]

Once in a blue moon stuff gets past manufacturing checks, i'd write it off to that.

[Edd]

Cheers :)
It is a very strange problem with no apparent cause, the only thing I can think of is that it's had a problem for some time and has just gotten worse with use.

I did Google for "broken Eheim 1046" at one point - nothing came up!

[Starbuck3733T]

Lets hope google finds yer thread.

[Pug]

I did Google for "broken Eheim 1046" at one point - nothing came up!
There'll be a good reason for that then, eh? ;)

Pump returned yesterday. :)

Notice to all - siphon bleed your pumps as per the manual.
Eheims won't pump air. Even if the whole loop is completely bled of air, any air in the impellor housing will cause the impellor to sit and spin.
The clattering you tend to hear is the blades of the impellor slapping the surface of the water inside the pump.

Oh, and if you test it underwater, the 1046 will emit a stream of bubbles on initial submergence due to two hollow channels in the bottom of the pump body.

Hope this helps anyone who finds themselves in similar circumstances. :)

[Edd]

I picked the pump up from the royal mail office this morning, put it in, and siphoned the water until it was above the outlet of the pump. Switched it on and it was very very quiet, but soon started clattering.

I realised that since velcro-ing the pump to the case floor I'd not even thought of moving it, so I capped the primer tank, removed the pump and turned it upside down ... quietness! And a crazy stream of tiny bubbles.
Turned it back and the noise resumed but slightly lower, so I uncapped the primer tank and let it run. Just going to cap it, turn it upside down again and see if I can dislodge anymore air.

[Edd]

Still no joy.

Half-dismantled the case, removed the AT from the bay and checked the connections - like all the others they are solid. Removed the rad and the top of the case and did some tipping, hasn't seemed to move any air. There seems to be air getting in SOMEWHERE because every time I upend the pump loads of tiny bubbles shoot round.
So either they're just not bleeding away when I reopen the primer tank, or they're being reintroduced somewhere. I just can't figure it out though! Before I assembled I made sure that all the fittings were tightened on ... I've checked the hoses time and time again ... argh, going mad here!:rant:

One thing which i find a bit odd (perhaps it's normal) - when I tip the pump upside down, the small pocket of air at the top flips to the "new top" (the inlet to the pump), but one would assume that this big pocket of air would be sucked through and replaced with water, no?

[Edd]

ACfluid added to see if bubbles would decrease = no :(

I sealed the primer tank and opened the AT, turned the pump over all sorts of ways I managed to totally clear the air bubbles in the primer and get them through to the AT - still no noise reduction.

Tipping the radiator and suddenly the inlet starts to leak from where the tube goes into the pushfit.
Have pushed the tube further in but it can't go any further. Leaking has stopped ... noise still remains.

There are no tiny air bubbles in the loop anymore, but there still seem to be lots "stuck" to the sides of the primer tank, especially around the pump inlet.

[EDIT]

Woah, put the cap on the primer again and turned the pump upside down ... HUGE frothy/bubbly water shoots around the loop (though doesn't come out of the radiator), I'm gonna open up the AT (again, *sigh*) and see if I can get them all when I turn the pump back on.

[Edd]

Brillianto! The head inside one of the hex screws that holds the AT lid on has been worn away, which means I can't open the AT anymore.

So ... off comes the primer lid again :rolleyes:, switch on pump ... the loop is now full of tiny bubbles/frothy stuff (though I think it's just LOTS of bubbles) which don't seem very keen on leaving via the open primer tank, as they keep being pumped around. Though the water does make a slight "fizz" sound :huh:.

I wish I could get a picture of this, but unfortunately the machine that can access my camera is ... the one I'm trying to get teh WC working on:lol:

[Edd]

Edd: 0
Pump: 56

So, I take the loop out of the PC and put it in the bath. Last time I did that with just the pump it went super-silent, this time ... nope. So I flushed everything out, and took some time out to watch some of the swimming finals in the Olympics, then me and my dad came to take a collective look at it.

What we've done is:

Totally filled the bath (my hands are frozen now :D) and submerged the entire loop.
Result? No change

Turned pump on & off to remove some air that was STILL there.
Result? Slightly quieter

So I figure - hey, it's totally submerged. Why not just take the front off the pump, let the chamber TOTALLY fill with water, then start the pump?
Result? No change

Then we take the impellor right out of the housing, some more air escapes. "Aha!" we cry in unison, and shake the pump around underwater to dislodge anymore air that's hiding. Put the front of the pump back on, switch it on and ... (hint, it's happened before)
Result? No change!


I've taken the front off the pump and we're going to let it sit submerged in the bath to TRY and let any rogue air (that must really have it in for me ;)) escape ... then try it again.

Then it'll be time to phone Pug and pray for assistance :p

[Edd]

My father is a watercooling god :D

My "submerge and leave" idea didn't work, but whilst I was downstairs he turned the pump on, and took off the front just briefly, and a huge amount of air whooshed out!
For some reason we couldn't dislodge it by siphoning or just submerging - but now it is TOTALLY silent :):wub:

[toby]

nice work fixing the problem

[Starbuck3733T]

how odd. is it dripping at all now?

[Edd]

No. Got it sorted last night, put it all back in the system, and was finally ready to boot up and reinstall XP at 12:05. So I did, and now it appears my shiny new motherboard and CPU don't want to boot into Windows.

To make matters (once again) even worse, I switch the pump on again and ... IT'S MAKING A F$CKING NOISE!!!

I'm this ->*<- close to cutting my losses and going back to an aircooled Athlon XP. A computer should NOT be this much hassle!

[Da_Rude_Baboon]

Probably a dumb question but how full is the AT? I had air getting in to my loop and i found out i hadnt quite topped up the water in AT enough and the turbulence it caused drew air back into the loop. :rolleyes:

[Starbuck3733T]

AC should revise the 'tube so that there is a blocker bar between the inlet and the outlet, like the dangerden acrylic res. that works very well, all the bubbles hit the blocker and are forced upward.

[Edd]

The AT was actually totally full.

Anyway, IT IS OVER! :D
My initial diagnosis yesterday morning was a little hasty (bad nights sleep = cranky Edd), and it took a few power cycles on the pump to get the noise down. It still makes an audible noise ... but only if you listen really hard with no background noise. Seeing as I listen to music 99% of the time, and it was on a wooden desk, I was happy with that.

There was still the issue of the non-booting computer. Turns out to be power related, though in a slightly weird way.

I unplugged my optical drives and to my delight, the machine booted into Windows. I performed the happy dance, before realising that a PC with no opticals isn't much use :o
So I plugged in an old CD-ROM, and it booted into XP again.
Unplugged that, reconnected the CD-RW = booted.
Unplugged that, connected just the DVD ... and no boot.

Just to make sure, I connected the CD-RW and old CD-ROM, and the machine booted fine. Seems that the DVD has some kind of issue with it (it is pretty old I suppose), because the label states that it draws less power than the old CD-ROM I plugged in, and everything worked fine then!

I'm going to swap the DVD with the house machine to check - if both machines work with them swapped around then I'll keep it that way, otherwise I'll have to look into getting a beefier PSU (I probably will, but I've got no cash at the moment, and I just sleeved the bloody thing a couple of weeks ago!)



So now all is good. The case is under the desk and I can barely hear it, been running XP since last night and its got all the updates, all the software is back and installed :)

[fivecheebs]

congrats man. Must be a load off ^_^

[Da_Rude_Baboon]

I can almost hear your sigh of relief from here! :lol:

[Edd]

:lol:
Too right, the last few days have been a bit stressful, and a non-working, noisy computer just added to it!

[Fibbles]

Go download the 2nd HL2 trailer, that'll take your mind off your troubles and worries, even though it's rather small, it's action packed goodness.

Could the air bubbles be going to the rad? It seems as if the rad is the highest stop, so it may be trapping some bubbles. I had a little issue with it when I bled mine, so I unscrewed it and had to move it around a bit, I did have the luxury of using the off and on cycle of the Aquastream and that was a blessing.

[Greeny]

O/T

Half life 2 begins STEAM pre-caching on the 17th. CS:Source Beta was ment to begin pre-caching today and gets activated on the 18th for CZ/HL2 Voucher owners.

I'm chomping at the bit personally.
:p

[Fibbles]

O/T

Half life 2 begins STEAM pre-caching on the 17th. CS:Source Beta was ment to begin pre-caching today and gets activated on the 18th for CZ/HL2 Voucher owners.

I'm chomping at the bit personally.
:p
O/T Too, but that's why I have steam enabled and did all the stuff with my coupon from my Radeon early this year. ^_^

[Pug]

My father is a watercooling god :D

Anyway, IT IS OVER! :D

... snip ...

So now all is good. The case is under the desk and I can barely hear it, been running XP since last night and its got all the updates, all the software is back and installed :)
/me sends good vibes in the general direction of Edd's dad. B)
(and considers the first line of the quote for Edd's custom title :lol: )