n00b parts selection questions

[Yellowsnow17]

Hi all. I found this great site through forum members at Bit-Tech, been lurking a while and decided to finally register.

So recently I decided to take the plunge and upgrade to watercooling. I did quite a bit of research on components, made some choices, and now here I am waiting eagerly for the packages to arrive. While I've been waiting I've been doing even more research, and now I'm worried that I might have made some non-optimal choices. Here's my hardware:

CPU Block - Swiftech MCW6000
GPU Block - Danger Den Maze 4 GPU
Rad - HW Labs BIP
Rad Fan - SilenX 120mm (58cfm)
Pump - AC Aquastream 12v
AC Flow Sensor (to aquareo)
Res - Obligatory Aquatube :)
Tubing - 3/8 ID (10mm)

My plumbing order will be: Res - Pump - Rad - CPU - GPU - Flow Sensor - Res

When selecting components, my primary concern was noise. I wanted to make the quietest setup as possible, and was willing to sacrifice a few degrees C of performance in the process. What I DON'T want to do is create a "kettle" as you call it. I'm especially concerned with the interaction between my large diameter tubing and low flow pump. Also, the adequacy of my radiator and fan is bothering me as well. Are there any forseeable problems with this setup? I ask because I think I've combined the worst aspects of both small diameter and large diameter setups. Remember that I'm not looking for the absolute lowest temps, just a quiet system that performs better than air cooling. Thanks.

[Knipex]

Yikes... what a question.

Not optimal but should be OK.

If I am right in thinking that auqa stream is the equivilent of a 1048 ??

Should be OK. but you really have 2 high flow blocks on there. If you were just running a CPU block I would say dont worry but 2 blocks is borderline IMHO.

What confuses me is you weer looking for a quiet system and then went for a loud fan....

[Fibbles]

The Aquastream is more like the 1046, the specs from Eheim and the specs from Aqua Computer are the same. The 1048 has a higher LPH (GPH) and if you want a pretty hefty head, perhaps look into the Innovatek HPPS 1048 (that has a 5 foot + head). 3/8" isn't all that large though, it's the balance between 1/4" and 1/2", I do know Aqua Computer makes 3/8" barbs, but I think it depends on what sort of flow the Maze 4 and MCW600 blocks need. In that system, the Aquatube will still be 1/4", a step smaller than the other 3/8" parts. Perhaps a high flow member will give a better answer.

For a fan, a high CFM and low noise Panaflo would work well. I have 2 Thermaltake 120's with 34dba and 78 CFM. The aluminum AOC fans would work well too, they push 80 CFM and are 36dba (some places report 30, but there seems to be some confusion).

[Yellowsnow17]

Well, the fan is rated at 14dbA. That 58cfm I put there is how much air it moves...

As for the blocks, I thought the swiftech mcw6000 was a good choice for low flow systems? It is supposed to be a low pressure block, or so I thought. As far as the DD gpu block goes, I really don't know so I'll take your word on that. How about the radiator? Is 58 CFM ~enough airflow for a black ice pro?

Also, I haven't ordered the CPU block yet, so if anyone has a suggestion speak up. I based my CPU block choice on data from Procooling

Dr. Fibbles: Thanks for the info. Actually, my Aquatube comes with 3/8 (10mm) fittings so there should be no restriction there.

[Fibbles]

When I had a BIX, I had an Aluminum AOC 80 CFM fan, and got good temps, along with my 1/2" parts.

For low flow, Pro Cooling reviewed the Innovatek Rev 3 block, and since Innovatek uses 1/4" threads you could switch it with Aqua Computer 1/4" threaded to 3/8" barbs. You could use any of the stuff Pug sells with 3/8" barbs and then use an Aquastream or any other pump, for low flow I suppose it wouldn't matter. Or use Cathars findings on the Alphacool blocks to your advantage. I'd say with al the water cooling stuff out now, it's pretty exciting, mix and match or something. Err, nevermind me...

[Knipex]

IMHO a 1046 just wont be enough. 56CFm sounds OK (You sure its only 14dB ?).

In all honesty I think the guys at ProCooling would be the best to ask. Tell them we sent you.

[Fibbles]

Perhaps the Swiftech pump and/or a Laing D4 undervolted (if low noise is what you want, that pump might now work well, mines noisy).

[Darv]

CPU Block - Swiftech MCW6000
GPU Block - Danger Den Maze 4 GPU
Rad - HW Labs BIP
Rad Fan - SilenX 120mm (58cfm)
Pump - AC Aquastream 12v
AC Flow Sensor (to aquareo)
Res - Obligatory Aquatube :)
Tubing - 3/8 ID (10mm)


I would swap the CPU block for a NexXxo's Pro, the GPU block for a AC twinplex and the rad for an APE 120. Then change the tubing to a smaller ID (ie 8 or 6mm)

Makes things much easier when you don't mix the different styles in the same loop. The Aquastream isn't very powerful but works fine in low flow setups. Also the flow sensors has a full 90 degree bend and would kill any flow you had if you decided to go for a more high flow orientated setup.

[Yellowsnow17]

...the flow sensors has a full 90 degree bend and would kill any flow you had if you decided to go for a more high flow orientated setup. Good point. I thought about that as well. What I decided was that it would probably have a similar impact (flow-restriction wise) as adding a northbridge block to the loop.

With the aquastream, it's pretty much a given that I'm not going to have any kind of high-flow setup. My main concern has always been noise, not the best temps possible. Also, money is becoming an issue as this project is WAY over budjet. :) This is effecting my possible choices for a CPU block, as it will cost me a small fortune to get a low-flow optimized European block imported. My chioces are basically Swiftech or Danger Den, and the Danger Den TDX/RBX is obviously not made for the type of system I'm buliding...

[Fibbles]

Use an Eheim 600 Compact with the Aqua Computer inline reservoir. It's pretty cheap and matches the Aquastream. Unless that's the route you've decided against.

[Darv]

Also, money is becoming an issue as this project is WAY over budjet. :) This is effecting my possible choices for a CPU block, as it will cost me a small fortune to get a low-flow optimized European block imported. My chioces are basically Swiftech or Danger Den, and the Danger Den TDX/RBX is obviously not made for the type of system I'm buliding...

[Edited to remove direct link to a compeditor] is what you need. They are a USA based re-seller of loads of german watercooling!

Edit.
Remember guys Wizd is a business trying to make money please dont post direct links to compeditors selling same products :( .

[Yellowsnow17]

[edited to remove direct link to compeditor]is what you need. They are a USA based re-seller of loads of german watercooling!Thats who I bought my Aquatube, Aquastream, and Aquaero from.:) It's still expensive though. The cuplex is $63, when I can get a Maze 4 GPU for $39 Also, SNT is having issues with US customs taking too long to process stuff. I placed my first order with them in mid June and have still not received it! :rant:Not their fault really, but I'm still not willing to wait that long. Anyway, I'll admit that I didn't consider the restriction difference between the Cuplex and the Maze 4 GPU, but I was under the impression that in low flow, restrictions are not as much a concern.

@Dr. Fibbles: I think you're talking about the "compactube." It's a neat product, I translated the press release on the Bit-Tech forums. Problem is I already purchased the aquastream, so I'd like to use it if possible;)

[Fibbles]

Probably that, yep.

Then, buy from Pug, he's close to Germany.

[Yellowsnow17]

Probably that, yep.

Then, buy from Pug, he's close to Germany.
I almost did, till I found out there was a US retailer. Then I ordered from SNT instead because I figured it would be quicker... (again not snt's fault, it was customs. The guy Dan at snt has been really helpful throughout.) How long would it take an order from WizD to get to the states, assuming the parts were in stock?

[Darv]

I'll admit that I didn't consider the restriction difference between the Cuplex and the Maze 4 GPU, but I was under the impression that in low flow, restrictions are not as much a concern.


Well the problem is the Maze block is designed for higher flow water and won't perform as well with low flow. Also don't you mean a Twinplex block. The Cuplex is a CPU block.

Don't know how long it takes ot ship to the US. Depends on the shipping type. You'll have to ask Pug.

[Knipex]

If you take out the flow meter and be carefull how you route the tubing you should be Ok.

The CPU block isnt really a low flow block and it isnt a highflow block it kind of straddles in the middle. The GOu block is a high flow block and will seriously suffer from the low flow but unless you are overclocking the card you should be O.K.

[Yellowsnow17]

@Darv: Yes I meant Twinplex, not Cuplex. Sorry bout the mixup...

Thanks for all the advice guys. Sounds like I should trade in the Maze4 for the Twinplex, and I'll consider removing the flowmeter from the loop. I'll post results when I have it up and running...

[Darv]

Well if you do go for german blocks and a smaller tubing you will be able to use the flowmeter without a problem. I take it you want to use an Aquaero with it or are you making your own thing for it?

[Fibbles]

I ordered a pair of modules so I could put fans on the other side of my rad (the Aqua Computer Airplex EVO only has holes on 1 side). They were in stock and took about 4 days to arrive from wherever in the UK Pug is. I'm also in New Mexico, which is sammitched inbetween California and Mexico sort of (plus another state, but we're in there -_- ), so that's a pretty fast shipment. I can't remember how much shipping was off hand, I have the recipt somewhere, I think it was in the 10 pound range. The total was $52 and easily payed through Paypal. If I do decide to buy the silver NexXxos XP block, it will probably be through Pug as well.

I've ordered form SNT too, but since I use these forums and I happen to love them, I have to support Pug as well. ^_^

I use "as well" way too much.

[Yellowsnow17]

@Darv: Yes, I'll be using an aquareo for diagnostics and such. That's also one of the reasons I chose the aquastream, because it can interface with the aquareo and give you all kinds of data. What is the necessity of switching from 3/8 to 8mm?(I assume you mean 8mm when you say smaller) Everything in my setup has 3/8 barbs: Aquastream, Aquatube, BIP, flowmeter. And the Twinplex and NexXxos blocks are available with 3/8 fittings... When I say 3/8, the European parts are actually 10mm. For my purposes though they should be compatible.

@Dr. Fibbles: Dude, i know where New Mexico is! That elusive state between you and me is called "Arizona." :) That's pretty fast shipping, wow! One last question for you: Since you seem to be knowledgeable on the NexXxos blocks, what is the difference, if any, between the XP and the HP Pro?

BTW, you guys are all really helpful, thanks :)

[Fibbles]

I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure the difference is that the NexXxos HP Pro is the design with the jets, and is made of copper. The XP is the same, but avaiable in gold or silver and is a bit pricier. I'm sure Knipex can go into greater detail, but that's a pretty good, if rough, estimate.

PPL tend to either blow off or not understand NM. You'd be surprised at how many still think it's not really a state. Oh well, That being said, I hate it here, the weather sucks and it's too dry for me. A few years ago my family and I spent some time in Oregon, and I would love to move there, perhaps in 2 years I will. A day without rain is a day not worth living... :lol:

[Darv]

Well I just find it easier to use the thinner tubing because you can use it means you can use puchfits :wub:

I guess it doesn't make a difference if all the parts can fit 3/8 tubing.

The difference between the HP Pro and the XP isn't much. The XP has the inlets in different places and I would imagine has a slightly different layout inside. Also it comes with either a gold or silver metal top whereas the HP Pro has an acrylic top.

Another difference is the XP needs a SHD to attatch to the socket tabs on the mobo. The HP pro can use the tabs or the bolts around the socket.

Basically the XP performs better but both are very good! :D

[Yellowsnow17]

PPL tend to either blow off or not understand NM. You'd be surprised at how many still think it's not really a state.
I like how your license plates say: New Mexico (USA) :lol: You ever hear that story about the Summer Olympics when they were in Atlanta a few years ago? It was all over the news here in California. Some guy from New Mexico was not allowed to enter the arena because the person at the gate insisted that he show a passport.:rolleyes:

Anway, you guys are great salesmen. I think I'll take the plunge (again) and go for the Twinplex and NexXxos XP!

[Fibbles]

That was all over the news, but the difference was that he wasn't able to buy tickets or something because they didn't reconize NM as a state, but both stories work I suppose. :huh:

I've been debating the XP for a little while but I can't decide, esp with wanting a new video card and having a little bit of money now.

@Darv: What do you mean you need the SHD? How about for using the block on a P4, I have no SHD tabs...

[Darv]

@Darv: What do you mean you need the SHD? How about for using the block on a P4, I have no SHD tabs...

I'm not actually sure how it works on a P4. It still uses a SHD because it doesn't have any means of bolting to a mobo.

[Knipex]

I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure the difference is that the NexXxos HP Pro is the design with the jets, and is made of copper. The XP is the same, but avaiable in gold or silver and is a bit pricier. I'm sure Knipex can go into greater detail, but that's a pretty good, if rough, estimate.

I dont claim to be an expert but both the XP and Pro bases are made from copper. As I understand it the only difference if the top. The jes have been redesigned to give better cooling and reduce resistence. It also looks shiney...

It cools better than the pro but how much better is another question (I honestly dont know.) If there is one thing I have learnt over the last few days its that anything that reduces flow resistance is good.

[Darv]

Review of both here (http://www.watercoolplanet.de/index.php?open=4&show=1)

I think the inside of the XP may be more like a Danger Den RBX with the straight channels.

Also the flow goes in the bottom and out the top on the XP whereas in the HP Pro it goes in the middle over the core and then out the top.

[Yellowsnow17]

Ok, I think I understand now. At the top you have the XP which is the best performing and has a nickel plated top and questionable P4 mounting. Then you have the HP pro with an acrylic top and regular-style mounting. Then you have the SP which looks a lot like the HP Pro but with a slightly different channel design. XP seems hard to come by and is very expensive. HP Pro may be a better bet. According to that review it cools well too!

[Darv]

The performance difference between them isn't huge. It all comes down to whether you like the style, the mounting kit and if maximum performance is what you are after.

The XP is quite expensive compared with the HP Pro too.


I've got an HP Pro and I'm very impressed with it. It cools brilliantly, it's easy to use, it looks cool.

Oh and you can fit the XP top onto an HP Pro AFAIK, so if you decide to change your mind you can.

[Fibbles]

I'm probably going with the Pro, mostly because I love the plexi tops (I love to watch, not like that, err, I'm the one who thought it eh?). I think the XP probably has an Innovatek style clamp for P4. At any rate, either would be a good choice.

Since this topic started with 3/8" parts in mind,. I've been wondering about something. Most parts designed for high flow use 1/2" parts, while those designed for low flow "European" have 1/4". Where exactly does 3/8" fit in? I know that it's very possible to get high flow parts wiht 3/8" barbs and 1/4" "European" companies make 3/8" barbs also, but is there any drawback to using either styles with 3/8"? Are there any others (besides Swiftech) that use 3/8"?

[Yellowsnow17]

Since this topic started with 3/8" parts in mind,. I've been wondering about something. Most parts designed for high flow use 1/2" parts, while those designed for low flow "European" have 1/4". Where exactly does 3/8" fit in? I know that it's very possible to get high flow parts wiht 3/8" barbs and 1/4" "European" companies make 3/8" barbs also, but is there any drawback to using either styles with 3/8"? Are there any others (besides Swiftech) that use 3/8"? My thoughts exactly. I was under the impression that 3/8" was a pretty standard size. After reading this site and procooling for the last few days however, I'm beginning to feel like 3/8" is the red-headed step child of watercooling tube diameters. Anyone have some insight on this?

[fivecheebs]

FWIW, here (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.nokytech.net/dossier.php%3Flire%3D121%26page%3D2&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnexxxos%2Bxp%2Binstallation%26hl%3Den %26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG) is a review of the XP and some nice pictures of the internals. It also goes into P4 SHD mounting a little.

Darv, thre water still hits the baseplate in the middle. Its just the position of the inlet thats changed. The central plate channels the water over the center of the baseplate through some (20) nozzels. Also as i understand it the base plate is identicle to the Hp but i could be wrong.

[Darv]

Oh I see how it works now. You're right it is the same base plate as the HP Pro.

[Yellowsnow17]

Ok, I have decided to purchase either the Aqua Computer Cuplex Pro or the NexXxos HP Pro. They share the same style of mounting, where threaded rod is placed through the motherboard. I was wondering if any of you who have blocks with this style of mounting have cut out a section of your motherboard tray to get at the hardware, or if you take the motherboard off of the tray to do the installation. Any drawbacks to cutting the tray? I'm leaning in this direction because I don't want to have to remove the motherboard every time I want to take the block off. (for cleaning and such)

EDIT: I just realized that if I DO remove the motherboard from the tray, it would only have to be once to get the threaded rod in. Er, guess I answered my own question...

[Blackeagle]

Another GPU block you may wish to consider is the Silverprop Fusion. It'll outperform the Maze 4, but I've no idea how it would compare with the Euro blocks.

If you get a Fusion look for the brass topped one, very well polished, very sharp look'n. And no corrosion risks with the top of brass.

[Fibbles]

Ok, I have decided to purchase either the Aqua Computer Cuplex Pro or the NexXxos HP Pro. They share the same style of mounting, where threaded rod is placed through the motherboard. I was wondering if any of you who have blocks with this style of mounting have cut out a section of your motherboard tray to get at the hardware, or if you take the motherboard off of the tray to do the installation. Any drawbacks to cutting the tray? I'm leaning in this direction because I don't want to have to remove the motherboard every time I want to take the block off. (for cleaning and such)

EDIT: I just realized that if I DO remove the motherboard from the tray, it would only have to be once to get the threaded rod in. Er, guess I answered my own question...You actually put the rods through the back of the board with the open screw facing up and their heads will rest behind the board. Then place the block over those, put the springs in place, and lastly you add the locking washers (don't forget the assorted thin washers too). After alll that you'd tighten washers and that's all. To take the block off, you just need to unscrew the washers and loosen the springs, then take that hardware off and pull the block off. Since the boards' distance to the tray is minimal, the bolts wont fall out backwards. After you mount it once, you probably wont have to change the mounting mechanism unless you move to another board or get a different kind of block. That's sort of what you said, right?

My Cuplex Pro (bought one today) will easily mount onto my Cuplex EVO hardware (mounting rods) because they use the same style.

The XP has an Innovatek style clamping system. Hrmmm...

I have a Silverprop block of some sort. It has a red possibly anodized aluminium top and a copper bottom. It's made for a P4.