small diameter hose fans help.

[MR POO]

ok i have decided to start putting together aqua comp stuff in my new rig, as pug seems to think the differance is prettymuch negligable between the two camps.

i understand that all ac stuff is low flow but how much bigger a pump can i use before i end up seing a flat line or decrece in performance?

i was thinking of a 12v pump - the ac one is very expensive here like 120 bucks.

(i moved to the usa due to work - used to be a london boy)

but for about 80 bucks i can get the swifty http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/images/spacer.gifMCP600, i was thinking of going with that - its no particually high flow but it is high pressure, as i slowly add more blocks will this prove useful or shall i just stick to a little eheim?

also what fitting would i need to get to make that pump work with ac stuff?

what is totally putting me off going the usa tubing route - like the stuff you find on a oil pipeline, is that i want a res, and all i can get is butt ugly ones if i go the 1/2 inch route.

all these yanky 1/2 inch lovers go on about how cool the chip is but the seem to forget it looks as ugly as a bulldog - yes well done you have a old trucks beaten up heatercore next to your pc with a rad thats made out of an old bleach bottle and its all sitting in a bucket of old water. very nice.


i really dont care how cold it all is your pc looks like a joke.

they are not all like this some are nice but if you go anywhere like pro cooling it all they go on about. i dunno why they dont get a prommie, oh yeah i forgot they cant afford it as they seem to be making stuff like a blue peter presenter.


i would honestly hope these people dont apply there watercooling philosophys to there wives as if thats the case, im sure they cook and clean well but they must look like whoopy goldberg.

thanks folks

[Psykotik]

http://www.c-systems.ca

I cant stop mentioning this pump!

D-Tek are now accepting pre orders I believe (C-Systems formed a partnership with em for distribution) but instead of the funky blue, you'll get a black one.

Had a word with Pug a while back, and he said that fittings to convert to AC Plug n Cool fittings should be about :)

[MR POO]

yeah i have seen that - are you going for the dual one?

what fittings would that be too do you have any idea? will 2 pumps be overkill - i heard ones not much better than a normal eheim 1046.

cheers

[fillip]

I'm thinking I may buy me a couple of those. works out at just over £50 for both with express worldwide shipping!!!! :h34r:

Does anyone actually know how these compare to other pumps in real world terms???

[MR POO]

yeah me2 just need to know exactly what fittings i need for the plug and cool.

[Psykotik]

I've got 3 on their way fairly soon, a dual setup running off mains for my passive loop,(1/2" ID) and a single one for running the AC gear on the second loop.

The fittings are 1/4" NPT on the pump, but youd have to ask Pug about AC conversion mejiggers, as I have no idea!!

As for performance, they beat the Hydor and the Eheim I believe, but Id buy them regardless, just for the fact that they are 2" cubed and put out next to no heat :)

[fillip]

sounds good.

with 2 units i could have two seperate loops. CPU and PSU on one and GPU, HDD and NB on the other

[Psykotik]

Im doing 3 HDD, NB, PSU, and MOSFETS on my secondary loop, through an APE 360 :D

Personally, in your loops, I would do CPU and GPU on one loop, and then the HDD, NB and PSU on another one.
Mainly as the CPU and GPU kick out the most heat (unless you have an A7N8X with its "volcanic" NB :lol: ) it would be logical to keep other components that may degrade the loop seperate

[fillip]

Personally, in your loops, I would do CPU and GPU on one loop, and then the HDD, NB and PSU on another one. Mainly as the CPU and GPU kick out the most heat
Thats why i wanted to put the two hottest components on seperate loops... :)

[Psykotik]

Good point! Too much time in one room and not enough sleep for me methinks (damn coursework crap)

Space for rads is the limiting factor for me for internal jiggery buggery (CoolerMaster Black Widow) as ideally id have the PSU on a seperate loop using a APE 120.

Actually, come to think of it, you reckon a 120 would passively cool a PSU? If so, I may have space..........

[MR POO]

a bit of topic but whats the best performing a/c cpu block - i have read a few reviews that say the cuplex evo is worse than the plain cuplex?.

[Psykotik]

I would have imagined the Evo would be superior :confused: Better meither Pug or Knipex :D

[fillip]

@ MR POO there was a link posted somewhere linking to a chart of the best german w/c gear - i'll see if i can find it for you. The Evo and standard Cuplex are pretty much equal, no real world difference anyway.

The Evo is out performed by the Nexxxos block, but the Evo has some extra features that Pug listed...

As for the 1/4" NPT - i've not managed to find push-fit --> NPT but have found converters for NPT --> BSP, which can then accomodate a push-fit connector.

here's (http://www.wizdforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=262) that thread i mentioned.

As for passive cooling of the PSU, i wouldn't go that route personally, i don't think it would cope, then again, the passive psu's available commercially are just like big heatsinks.

I'd forgotten about having 2 rads for a dual loop setup - dunno if it can be accomodated in the case. I may build a single loop with some extra 'cooling device' ** wink wink ** and stick the 2nd pump midway through the loop where the liquid would be starting to lose momentum after being through a couple of blocks.

PUMP -> *secret weapon B) * -> CPU -> PSU -> PUMP -> NB -> GPU -> RAD -> AquaTube ->

[Psykotik]

Sounds like a plan!

My plan at the mo is to have my Sierra rad running passive bolted to the side of my desk (mucho airflow) and have a APE 360 lying on the bottom of my case for the secondary loop. If I could get away with having a 120mm rad in the top drive bay (only occupying one bay) then I could prolly do:

PSU and NB on the 360 or possibly a 240, and other components on 120 in drive bay??

[fillip]

Is it wise having the rad lying horizontally on the case floor? doesn't that reduce performance rather severly? because you cant have any air flow from underneath - unless ur gonna cut holes beneath, and all the dissipated heat has gotta rise up through the case again anayway.

just a thought...

I'd like to be abe to have a 360, but i want everything to fit in my case and I don't 'think' i could fit it in - we'll see. anyway, i intend on chilling the water somewhat anyway but again, we'll have to see how things pan out.

[Psykotik]

Hmmm. Bugger. I cant think of any other way (cept fabbing a mount in the side window) of getting adequate cooling in there :(

Chilling the water is gonna be fun, look forward to lots of pipe lagging and condensation! :)

[fillip]

Chilling the water is gonna be fun, look forward to lots of pipe lagging and condensation! :)
I don't intend on going that cold, but I'm hoping for somewhere in the region of a 10oC drop

[Psykotik]

As soon as you go below ambient youll have problems tho which is an arse.
I'm stuck now, cant think of suitable places for rad placement.....

[fillip]

predicted average idle temp of 35 C - 10 C = 25 Cstill close to ambient temps in this country even at the peak of summer. and not even an issue the rest of the year. So it should be ok.
What case have you got? can you mount it on the roof of the case? either inside or out.

[Psykotik]

You might just get away with it then :D

I have a CoolerMaster ACTS 201 (Black Widow)

I was attempting to get all the AC stuff internal, but with the additional load of the PSU I may well have to resort to external rad mounting :(

It appears the only locations I have for rads are:

Top drive bay: Cant go over APE 120 size because of AquaTube mounting and PSU barbs.

Lower drive bays: I will be removing the existing 3 1/2" bays and replacing them with 51/4" bays for housing my watercooled hard drives, but I may be able to squeeze a 120 in there at the bottom

Bottom of case. Could run the whole lot through a 360. I could mount it on stand offs, giving air a chance to circulate.

Im thinking option 3 may be the best bet, and if I can get away with it, run a passive 120 in the drive bay in series.

[fillip]

What about mounting it on the top of the case (externally) and then building a shroud for it that matches the case colour so it's not so obvious? This will also help reduce noise from the fans on the rad and make them more efficient while keeping the overall look of the case consistent, yet, allowing you to have a bigger rad and thus more cooling potential??

[Psykotik]

The trouble is, I've tries on a number of bits of alu that I have lying around to match the case finish (Mirror finished black) but have failed miserably.

I think I'm either gonna go with the 360 mounted on stand offs internally, or go about making a stand for the 360 and having it on my desk next to the PC.

I could use valve fittings for easy disconnect from the back of the system....

Arrggghh!

Well, I'll mull over it in work tomorrow (erm today :) ) as I'm guaranteed to have at least 2 hours of doing next to bugger all :D

Sleepy time for me now tho methinks :)

[Pug]

Got pics Psy? My brains falling asleep ahead of me too much to give any useful input other than that, sorry. :o

[Psykotik]

Call me Andy, Rich, I feel at home here ;)

If your meaning pics of my pathetic paint attempts, then I'll have to nick a digicam from someone as my phone's camera is absolute arse, if you want case pics, I got loads of em (was chuffed to bits when I built this system :D)

[Pug]

Sorry Andy - I pencilled your name in my mind as (Psy)Simon (for some reason) when you first posted and it's really hard to get it out of my head now. :o

Case pics would be cool - I'm just trying to visualise what you have by way of space & setup options...
...and by the sounds of your setup, we should be seeing pics in the Gallery section anyway! :rant:
Hmm. Mebbe I should make a single gallery thread to post as a sticky for people to post the best 3 pics of their rig, like on Bit-tech. :confused:

[Psykotik]

S'ok Rich, it's happened a few times on various forums now! :lol:

I couldn't find my old pics (bloody arsey My Documents destroying virusy thing I had the other month must've taken 'em along with all my coursework)
so decided to attempt to repair an ageing semi knackered digi cam that a mate left me ages ago. I thought it was FUBAR, but after some moderate tinkering and cleaning, it seems to last about 5 minutes after a full charge now (with new batteries!) Couple this with my lack of camera usage, and you have the resulting terrible pictures! :o

I apologise for the chunk of paint missing from the top right hand corner above my PC, that was where I threw the camera mid repair(doessnt matter too much, as I'm redecorating the room at the moment) and my attrocious cables stuffed into the top of the case are temporary (I only swapped out boards recently, and couldnt be arsed to do it properly! :o )

Bottom of the case, where I thought (after some cable management) I could get away with mounting a rad or two)

http://andygoodwin.plus-media.co.uk/uploads//Case%20Gubbins%202.JPG

I could reloacte the opticals to the two lower drive bays so that I could add an APE 120/120mm Panaflo combo in the top of the case:

http://andygoodwin.plus-media.co.uk/uploads//Case%20Gubbins%203%20(The%20Finale).JPG

Only a 120 could be mounted in the front top of the case, as the AquaTube is gonna go here:

http://andygoodwin.plus-media.co.uk/uploads//AquaTube%20mounting%20.JPG

http://andygoodwin.plus-media.co.uk/uploads//Case%20Top.JPG


The 3 1/2" bays are being removed and replaced with a 5 1/4" cage that I'm currently attempting (to accomodate the SS Dual HDD blocks) which would leave me with just about enough room for an APE 120mm in the case front (directly behind dual 80mm intakes)

http://andygoodwin.plus-media.co.uk/uploads//Case%20Side.JPG

And I thought I may as well show you my rad and as I'm here, and I'll post my desktop in the desktop thread :)

http://andygoodwin.plus-media.co.uk/uploads//Rad.JPG


If the pics are too big, just holla and I'll resize them (I know its taking a while as I'm on ISDN)

Cheers,

Andy

[Will]

Nice case mate. Black Widow?

Good luck with the modding

[fillip]

That rad is bigger than the case :eek:

[Psykotik]

Indeed it is the Black Widow :)

I'm quite chuffed with my rad :D

[Psykotik]

Bumpety Bump!

I can't think of anywhere to mount the rad that won't involve me massacring my front panel and ruining the aesthetics of the case other than in the top drive bays.

I need to be able to adequately cool:

PSU, 3 HDDs,NB and MOSFETS

The option I was initially thinking about was mounting the rad/fan in the bottom of the case, and modifying the mesh front to suit the larger fan and maintain aesthetics(120mmx200mm should look ok, it will get rid of my unused floppy bays as well) but that is a fair bit of work as I wil need to relocate the power and reset switches, the USB flap and the mesh mounts behind the bezel, as well as smoothing and repainting the whole front.

Other (much easier) options are:

Mounting the rad (again a single 120mm) in the bottom of the cage I am making, and having a 120mm fan on the back of the rad sucking air through the existing dual 80mm intakes or mounting a single in the top of the case (which I want to avoid unless necessary as I have space constraints because of the number of drives I will be using)

I am in limbo for the moment being as I dont know if a single rad would adequately cool the above mentioned components, and because of the obvious rad placement problem.

Can any of you think of a better placement, or should I be looking at external mounting again?

[MR POO]

ive got ur case i just brought it - i think im gonna have to go external, i have butchered many cases, lian lis and whatever but i cant bring myself to do it to a black widow - not they are no longer made it seems like a bad thing to do.

one slip and its all over, no replacment parts at all.

[Psykotik]

Thats my feelings really, as I bought one of the last ones in the country, and it's a beautiful dust magnet.. erm case :D

I could always buy the new version of it and go mental on that instead I spose........

[MR POO]

heh ur the same as me - its silly i kind of feel like it should be a museum piece - i have never been so scared about a case - and this is a man who has happily hacked away at cm 210's shuttles lian li.


the main problem is the shiny finnish - one slip and its all over.

im considering a coolermaster stacker - but i must use the case for something, i can get all the stuff in bar the radiator, i think it will look ok external if mounted well - i want a triple 120mm fan one so ill have to.

im glad its not just me worrying about this case so much.

[toby]

coolermaster stacker is a nice case and i have some great plans for one

[MR POO]

yeha i have seen that - the triple 120mm fan mant at the frount looks tops for a big radiator dont it - little modding required.

[Psykotik]

It's definitely not just you! :)
I actually have started throroughly cleaning my room on a regular basis since I got this case, as t attracts that much dust!

I've just decided on my course of action:

Im ordering a CoolerMaster Praetorian, as its identical to the Black Widow bar the finish. I'll mod the internals of the the new case, and simply swap the panels over when done, and use my original chassis with the new case's panels to house my secondary rig.

I think I may cut out a blowhole and mount a rad in the top of the drive bays, as Deep Blue did the same thing to a Silver Widow a while back using 1/2" tubing to cool his CPU and GPU using a Thermochill HE120.1, and he gets temps of about 40 degrees.

Thats pretty good considering he's cooling the two hottest components, so I dont think I'd have too much trouble cooling my components on a single rad. (The APE 120 should therotecally be better, as it has a deeper width, meaning more surface area)

I'm quite excited again now!!

[Will]

Assuming you haven't already bought the readiator already, you could always use the Black Ice Micro radiators (2 x 80mm) and fit it in the front of the case (intakes). This should work, and it might give equal performance of a 120mm rad.

[MR POO]

yeah i was thinking about the thermochill triple or watercools triple rad, may be over kil i dunno.

what is scaring me is im moving to las vegas to live soon, as california is just silly money for houses and the wages, so im off to the desert thats about 100 degrees for a few months, then about california weather for the rest.

u reckon say 3 b ice mocros will be ok for a cpu and gfx?

or shall i just go the whole hog and get he triple 120 mm rad? - be about the same price as 3 b ice micros.

[Will]

Arhh - I got a little confused with who's thread it was Mrpoo/Psykotik ( I didn't read from the beginning).

I think that a Black Ice Micro II Bottom of this page (http://www.dangerden.com/mall/Radiators/hwlabs.asp) would adequately cool your loop - try it with CPU first and see if it is ok before going doing the gpu. It can fit in the front of the Widow (I've seen it on another webpage before). You could add a further BIM at the rear if you find that it's not up to scratch. If you use a triple 120mm you'll have to mount it externally since there's so little space inside one of these cases.

If you're ok with modding the case, I would try and squeeze a double 120mm up there, but it's understandable that you don't want to kill it lol.

[Psykotik]

I had a BIM before (two infact) and they are honestly not worth it if your'e cooling the processor.

A 120mm rad dissipates more than double what my two rads did, and made a damn site less noise in the process (80mm fans=high frequency wailing hell)

I'd personally go for the 120mm form factor, just because its larger area will disipate more heat more effectively, and the fact that quieter 120mm fans can be used.

[Fibbles]

Right now my 1.4 P3, dual Canopus Voodoo 2's, 9 GB WD hard drive and 256mb a PC-133 are sitting in my closet, inside that same very case. I was gonna mod it to fit the water cooling stuff I'm not using at the moment (only low flow, to hell with 1/2"!), but I don't want to massacre it any more than I already have. I drilled a cathode switch on the side and uh, slipped, creating a non circular hole. I need to cut it out and add something to it. Modders mesh might look good.

I live in a desert. I hope to move the Oregon in the next couple of years, but now I get so much dust it's terrible. If I dust something black today, it will be coated by tomorrow morning. :angry:

[Pug]

I had a BIM before (two infact) and they are honestly not worth it if your'e cooling the processor.

A 120mm rad dissipates more than double what my two rads did, and made a damn site less noise in the process (80mm fans=high frequency wailing hell)

I'd personally go for the 120mm form factor, just because its larger area will disipate more heat more effectively, and the fact that quieter 120mm fans can be used.
We'll be having the Tec Ice Duals in soon together with some other nifty SFF radiator offerings.
I was thinking that if I could seal up the rest of my PC-50 well enough, I could mount a dual 80mm at the front and use a 120mm exhaust to duct air through it but I've re-thought that plan as a 120 rad will fit on its side anyway (and the single Tec Ice 80mm is coping well atm anyway).