I like this challenge Pug :)

[scopEDog]

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=9649&page=1&pp=25

I understand both sides of the camp, as they make valid claims. When people ask me why I prefer the smaller tubing I always tell them Quieter/Smaller/Engineered...in that order. In my own testing of US and German watercooling the biggest difference in temps that I've seen is 3 degrees (same pc, different kit, same ambient temp). Now there is no scientific analysis of this..just casual testing just to see what the fuss was about.

Now mind you, you can make any kit perform with the right parts, but it all boils down to whats important to you. I'm not an overclocker of any kind, more into builds and design. So my priorities are a little different, and there is a place for both sides of the camp. But i would like to see better engineered..lower flow blocks come out of the US. Anyone can get a bigger pump and add more flow (i think the car analogy fits, why make an engine that consumes more gas...when you can make the engine itself more effecient), but can you design a block that works with low flow? Now thats a challenge..

[dutchcedar]

Europe: small engine, light chassis, nimble handling... think Colin Chapman.

USA: big motor, stout chassis, power slides... think Carrol Shelby (O.K. Shelby was never good at "stout chassis", but you get my point, I'm sure).

It's a societal thing, believe it or not. Being a Dutchman that lives in the USA gives me an understanding and appreciation of both. I've owned (and enjoyed) a Lotus, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche and Fiat. I've also owned (and enjoyed) Chevys, a Ford, Jeep, Buick and Pontiac. They each have their advantages and disadvantages.

To water cooling... on the left side of my desk is a dual 2400MP system that's essentially a "small" tubing rig. On the right side of my desk is a dual 3.06 Xeon GHz "fat" tubing rig. They both perform exceptionally well.

The big pump thing is a mute point... when properly selected and installed, pumps are the quietest component in a rig. Both of my rigs use Eheim pumps (1048 and 1250), both pumps are virtually silent.

Radiators... here's where I've always had a big disagreement with the "low restriction" claims of the American systems. Radiators squeeze and turn the coolant more than the tubing we use, so it kinda nixes the "low restriction" arguments made by many.

Bottom line... I like 'em both, but lean towards the "fat" tubing because it's more challenging and more condusive to filling up "double wide" cases which I happen to have a big liking for. SFF PC's do nothing for me except mark the end to sound reasoning behind building custom boxes. :rant:

In the end, the performance of one over the other is so small, its a dead argument in my mind. Personal taste is the deciding factor for me, because like scopEDog, I like the design process and the build. If I want better performance, I buy better components... no overclocking here. :blink:

[Pug]

Hehe, thanks guys. Should prove ever more interesting when they get the kits. :)

[Nexxo]

As I have said in the past, I committed to 3/8" ID tubing when I bought the Paul Vodrazka blocks (I did not know of Aqua Computer at the time)... I sort of worked from there. Otherwise I would have gone for AC stuff, given that I just love German engineering. Moreover since I started Metaversa (more than a year ago now), lots of new AC and Innovatek stuff has come out that is more like then things I was looking for: 12V pumps, good GPU blocks etc. If I had to start over, it would be straight to the AC shop!

I believe Dutchcedar is right (Hee, hoe gaat het daar in den vreemde, landgenoot?). It's a cultural thing. In (what used to be) the land of abundance of the good ol' USA, they generally like bigger and more powerful, while in Europe, traditionally faced with more economic and resource restrictions, they like efficiency and economy. Me, I believe that good design wins out over brute power (which is what I hope to demonstrate in Metaversa).

My next project may be that Iwill dual Opteron SFF PC. I may watercool that. That will mean efficiency and compact design-- AC and Innovatek stuff combined with a C-systems pump would be just the ticket!

[Pug]

I'd love to play with one or two of those C-systems jobbies but with all the hoo-ha and so on, I'm not even going to join the queue just yet, so I'll appreciate anyone who does get one letting us know what they think too. :)

Dutch's opinion as so close to my own on a lot of things like this, it's spooky. :D

[Knipex]

Europe: small engine, light chassis, nimble handling... think Colin Chapman.

USA: big motor, stout chassis, power slides... think Carrol Shelby (O.K. Shelby was never good at "stout chassis", but you get my point, I'm sure).

Ok first I like the european style low flow watercooling gear.

BUT I own a lotus 7 Replica (Colin Chapman) but I think I would sell it for a Cobra (Or a good replica) (Carrol Shelby):D

[Fibbles]

I recently switched to a German style system from an American 1/2". My temps have dropped a wee bit, well, my water wetter accident changed that for a short while though. :( I really prefer my Cuplex EVO to my D Tek TC-4, especially in the looks department. Noise has stayed the same cause I'm still using two loud green LED fans on my Airplex 240 (I was using a single BIX in push/pull). Looks are a huge reason I switched, and the small ID tubing doesnt get in my way or keep me out of the insides of my case. Soon I'll be switching out my Tank O Matic with an Aquatube and replacing my Cuplex EVO with a Cuplex Pro. I also just bought an AlphaCool GPX for my 9800pro. I'm a light CPU overclocker, and I tend to OC my GPU as far as it will go. This will probably sound cheesey, but when I had my 1/2" system I was ready to go back to air, but now that I went ahead and tried this German stuff, I'm in love with water cooling. Just like my t-shirt says, nothing beats German engineering. :)

[dutchcedar]

Dutch's opinion as so close to my own on a lot of things like this, it's spooky. :DWell, the ideas and tastes of both yours and mnpctech are indeed close to my own and that is kinda scary... Maybe someday we'll all get rich, jump on a plane to meet each other and arm wrestle for the pub tab. :rant:

[Pug]

Well, the ideas and tastes of both yours and mnpctech are indeed close to my own and that is kinda scary... Maybe someday we'll all get rich, jump on a plane to meet each other and arm wrestle for the pub tab. :rant:
I would be so up for that (even if I would end up buying the beer :D).


Back to the challenge momentarily -
Anyone got any input on how the test should be conducted (winning conditions or just things people would like to know)?
Few things I've been mulling over...

I'm thinking another interesting comparison from many questions I get asked, might be to test the proposed Swiftech kit in both 1/2" & 3/8" configs (being the closest tubing diameter to ours), against our kit.

If Cathar doesn't mind, perhaps the WCP testbench argument might also be put into better perspective if the Cascade were also included in this test in both 1/2" configuration (as per design) and also with 3/8" tubing (also being as many end users may wish to integrate this block into their existing 3/8" system and wonder if it will give them the upgrade they hope for without actually configuring the system to the "extreme" at first).

^^^ It's not just about winning as far as this is concerned, it's also about removal of doubt and clarification of assertions.

I'm just as keen to know how good everything is. Hey, they might even convert me back to selling US stuff again. ;)
Mebbe we could get a similar Danger Den Kit into the test if they liked.
Coolmiester's TDX bundle should make the grade if the GPU block was dropped and a matching 240 rad & twin fans were slapped in the package...