Dual Processors

[furious trout]

Right i've more or less decided to go for an Athlon 64 (see this thread (http://www.wizdforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=183) for more on that one)
My next question is should i be really foolhardy and consider a dual processor setup? Is there much to be gained for someone who doesn't do a lot of media creation, but does like to have loads of apps open at the same time :p

I think i might be getting carried away :wacko: (but then that is half of the attraction with this modding lark i suppose)

so should i seriously consider it or should i just buy a ton of Ram and a nice fast CPU instead (plus loads of lovely aquacomputer kit :wub:)

All opinions greatfully received

[Darv]

IMO dual CPU's are a waste for home users. They are onyl realy neccessay for big servers or something similar.

For a home user you will want good features from the board which dual cpu boards don't offer as they aren't needed in offices. Also I doubt that any of the software you use will take advantage of more than one cpu. I may be wrong but I don't think it would make a difference when you have lots of apps open either.


Basically save your money and spend it on a a faster cpu, better mobo and more RAM. It will be much faster and pobably still cheaper.

[fillip]

If there was a dual athlon board as feature packed as any of the top end offerings from ppl like Asus, Abit, etc... i'd have one.
As it stands, i havent yet seen a dual board with agp 8x or with dual channel ram or any of the little extras you associate with the popular single cpu boards.

I considered going for a dual setup once, using athlon xp's unlocked to be MP's.

but now i'd just rather have an athlon 64, which by all accounts appsolutely flies, and stuff it full of corsair ram and a 9800xt.

[furious trout]

Thanks for the inpu guys, having read a bit more on thins i've come to the same conculsion - i think i'll redirect my finances to a banzai w/c setup instead B)

[Kickass]

i got dual cpu and yes, u can do loads of stuff at once, quite stable, BUT its not very quick. i reckon an XP 2500+ with 2 x 256mb 3200 memory dual channel would be much quicker, and i dont have 8x agp only 266 bus :huh:

[dutchcedar]

Duallies rock if you're a busy 'puterer. :D If you have multiple apps running or use programs that take advantage SMP, they're definately faster and more stable.

They can certainly be used with 8X AGP. The rig I'm building now is a dual 3.06 GHz Xeon and uses an 8X AGP Pro 150 slot... so yah, they're out there.

It really depends on how you use your 'puter. Unless I was building a rig specifically for gaming, or a "wife" rig, it would be a duallie.

[fillip]

u got the model number for that dual m/b w/ agp 8x??

[dutchcedar]

u got the model number for that dual m/b w/ agp 8x??Sorry for not gettin' back to ya fillip... I think I got lost with the forum down.

It's a Tyan Thunder i7505.

It's up and running and flat out flies... :blink:

[fillip]

Thats an intel board then yeah?

Dont s'pose you know of any decent AMD dualies??

[dutchcedar]

Iwill DK8X uses an 8X AGP Pro slot: http://www.iwillusa.com/products/ProductDetail.asp?vID=182

Tyan makes a dual Opteron board with one too.

[adwhitworth]

If you still want to look at Dual processors, take a look at a Dual Opetron Setup. They will absolutely fly!:)

[Kickass]

fillip m8

i got the Gigabyte Dual AMD board, does me just fine, its a 266 bus though so not amazing

GA-7DPXDW-P

[Fibbles]

A few years back I had an Abit VP6 with dual 866 P3's. The only game that took advantage was (still is?) Quake 3. I also had dual Voodoo 2's. What fun that was.

If you don't mind Intel Xeons, the Asus PC-DL uses the 875 chipset, with AGP8X, SATA RAID and a few other perks. The Asus PP-DLW uses the E7505 chipset with AGP8X, but no SATA and a few less features than the latter.

On the AMD side there is the MSI Master 2 - Far VIA K8T800 for single FX's or dual Opertons. It has SATA and AGP8X. The IWILL DK-8X uses the AMD-8000 for dual Opertons with all of the above and can support 16 gigs of RAM.

[Nexxo]

Am I missing something about the AGP X8? Why does everyone insist on a X8? The speed difference with X4 is negligible. It's a bit like SATA 150 not being really that much faster than EIDE 133, and RAID 0 not giving much more performance than straightforward setups (considering the added cost and complications). And let's not even talk about expensive RAM with lower latency settings-- an extra £150,-- gets you a 2% speed increase. Whoop-dee-do!

In the end, a PC is a complex affair and there are bottlenecks everywhere. A lot of the supposedly faster perks, well, aren't... Benchmarks are poor comparisons. I mean, do you look at a car just in terms of its top speed? What about road holding, reliability, fuel economy, versatility, impact safety, features, depreciation, purchase, maintenance and insurance cost?

I've gone Dually because I like to have a lot of stuff on my desktop at once: e-mail, browser, MSN, mIRC, Winamp and perhaps some other windows. Apart from that, save your money, don't pay over the odds for top-of-the-range stuff but overclock wisely.

[Will]

Am I missing something about the AGP X8? Why does everyone insist on a X8? The speed difference with X4 is negligible. It's a bit like SATA 150 not being really that much faster than EIDE 133, and RAID 0 not giving much more performance than straightforward setups (considering the added cost and complications). And let's not even talk about expensive RAM with lower latency settings-- an extra £150,-- gets you a 2% speed increase. Whoop-dee-do!

Yes, I guess it's just for compatability and upgradability though; I think the first generation 9700's had a problem with the new X8 spec - but technology has to move forward whether or not it yields the performance increase it suggests or promises. Generally people are impressed with figures and all the other technical terms and yet understand nothing about how it will affect their average use on a PC.

Also there will always be a market for the extreme enthusiasts that have to have the latest and greatest even though it's not worth the money but they have their reasons. However these performance products drive down the prices of 'average products' for us 'average users' - so I guess it works both ways.

er yeah...what was the question again? :p

[dutchcedar]

A little to one means a lot to another.

In my case (pun), running a 3DLabs Wildcat 7110 means I MUST have an 8X AGP Pro slot with the additional 6 pin connector off the power supply, or it simply won't work right.

To someone else it might all mean diddly-squat.

So on to your assertion about marginal performance gains of SATA 150 over IDE 133... again, it depends how its used. In my case, its four 74gig Raptors running off a RAIDCore PCI-X controller in RAID 5... since that type of controller isn't available for IDE drives, it changes the whole equation. The combination spanks the bajesus over my other rig with two IDE 133 drives in RAID 0. No, spanks ain't the right word... think dominatrix ass-whoopin' with a cane... well, maybe ya better not... :unsure:

Again, to someone else, it might mean diddly-squat.

In the end, its all about matching the right components with each other... to avoid bottlenecks and to suck the most out of each and every component you've got. If you're lookin' for the max...

Otherwise, it means diddly-squat. :D

[Nexxo]

The combination spanks the bajesus over my other rig with two IDE 133 drives in RAID 0. No, spanks ain't the right word... think dominatrix ass-whoopin' with a cane... well, maybe ya better not... Can you post some pics of that? :D

[Da_Rude_Baboon]

As for RAID 0 not being much faster i found my games loaded at least 50% quicker with it then they did before. :)

[Nexxo]

Timed that? Besides that's a straight up-load. A good defrag with re-clustering of associated files on the HDD can achieve the same. How about general use in Windows or applications?

[dutchcedar]

Back when I set up my first RAID system (two 80 gig Maxtor IDE drives with a High Point RocketRAID PCI controller), I ran speed tests... compared to using a single IDE drive. It was indeed much faster. Not quite twice as fast but, but almost.

Here are the test results between the two scenarios I mentioned earlier... 2-1/2 times faster...

http://www.pcperspective.com/images/reviews/41/filesystem.gif

[Nexxo]

Interesting. I read some reports of Raid 0 setups (IDE) where performance gains were only about 10%... In the most recent report they were Raptors too.

[dutchcedar]

I've read similar reports, Nexxo. They all have one thing in common... a controller that isn't up to the tax. It really is about matching up the right stuff when you're building a RAID system that's gonna perform.

[Da_Rude_Baboon]

Nope, no timings as i'm not bothered by exactly how much faster it goes. I had two identical hard drives and it was a feature on my mobo so i thought i would give it a go has i had to do an OS reinstall anyway.


As dutch said, it all depends on the hard ware. At the time I was using crappy old fujitsu drives so i noticed a big difference. If i'd been using better faster drives then maybe the difference wouldnt have been so pronounced. Either way it loaded my games quicker and i was happy. :)

[Kickass]

Wooo fight fight fight...

Umm duallys ar good for multi tasking, means you have in affect 200% processor, so that when a program may use 100% sometimes the computer performance may be signifant and unoticable.

Personaly, the things i do on my dually (on an average time you may pick pc)

Winamp (allways open wether i'm out/in agame/speakers off)
Seti@home crunching data for extraterrestrial intelligence (i will find an alien)
Msn (allways open)
Games such as Black Hawk Down or UT2004
Email outlook express
Several internet windows

The comp i see no degrading performance whilst running all this, it all seems to be fine!

The comparison between single cpu and dually is STUPID you cant compare them, its totaly different the way they work. You can get really fast dually xeons but ur talking mega bucks. For an MP system its slow.

The way i see it is, that my computer is faster because once i have something open theres still space for more to be open. I see its not very fast and a cheapo comp you could build for £400 would be as fast with ONE aplication open maybe.

Memory is an issue with duallys, ecc reg is generaly only pc2100 and expensive (i have 2 gig) its the same kinda thing with memory as with cpus, the more you have dosent make it go faster just means you can open/do more things at once)

Hope those explanations good enough for ya

[Fibbles]

I don't have a dually per se, but I do have hyper-threading :p

Once I had a dual P3 866 on an Abit VP6. Those were fun times, and Q3 was a lot faster than it was with a single CPU, but nowhere near todays performance. I'd love a dual Operton setup, but the thought of how much I'd need to save up is nuts, as well as knowing that when I have saved up for a current top of the line setup, it wont be anywhere near tops. :angry:

[3dcandy]

I got an ABit BP6 with dual Celeron 500's, and it is a homeserver...it serves webpages (my home page is generated on the fly), has a Shoutcast server so I can listen to my favourite songs anywhere with a net connection, has several game servers for when my mates come round - and STILL I'm able to use it for stuff like surfing the net and printing of stuff without much of a slowdown!


Compared to my main pc, which needs a damn good update (Athlon 1.4) it feels so much smoother in use, and copes extremely well with what I throw at it!

Having used a dual Opteron setup, which cost the earth, all I can remember is that there was zero lag, no waiting for anything to finish loading, or having to wait for the cpu to catch up....but I'm damned if I know anything of the specs...:wacko: