Pump Relay's

[fillip]

Ok, so using the tutorial i found over at Bit-tech (http://new.bit-tech.net/article/100/) i figure it will be relatively simple to build a relay switch for my w/c pump so it starts at power up, however, i'm not that proficient when it comes to electronics so i was wondering if anyone here knows how hard it would be to add a switch that would allow me toggle between ON (turns on with system) and FILL/BLEED (which would allow me to run the w/c setup w/out powering up the actual comp.?

I know the criticool powerplant relay does this, but the proce i last saw it was £30 and that was at PCLincs b4 it went belly-up.

Any ideas??

.: Fillip :.

[Pug]

Well I have a bunch of Noise Isolator ones on the shelf which I'm hoping to put out for around £20-25 on launch.
(just typing up the manual for translation.)

http://www.wizarddesigns.co.uk/imgs/13604.jpg

The little switch visible is an auto/on toggle like you specify.

My current problem with them (if you'll excuse the pun) is that they come with Euro 2-pin power leads as standard but if I can't source UK leads I'll just break out the wire cutters and do 'em a couple of quid cheaper with bare (or no) leads.
No real biggie. :)

[mrplow]

Originally posted by Pug@Mar 3 2004, 10:49 AM
My current problem with them (if you'll excuse the pun) is that they come with Euro 2-pin power leads as standard but if I can't source UK leads I'll just break out the wire cutters and do 'em a couple of quid cheaper with bare (or no) leads.
No real biggie.  :)
I don't think that's legal anymore... not certain though.

Remember back when everything came bare, and then suddenly everything had to come with a plug because all people are complete morons?



The only thing I don't like about those cards is that they get mains a little too close for comfort to all the internals / wandering hands inside the case. A sealed plug of some kind on the inside would have been way nicer than that chocolate-block-type assembly.

Still, mighty usefull.
I bet they come with a nice disclaimer ;)

[Da_Rude_Baboon]

Yeah looks like a recipe for blue smoke if u ask me! :D

[fillip]

useful device and very similiar to the criticoo version as you said - could always hack up a project box as some housing for it.
But i wanna try building the device in the tut' and then add the appropriate AUTO/ON toggle switch.
I imagine someone like starbuck3733T would find this relatively simple, unfortunately I AM relatively simple and dont know where to start ;)

The other thing is, for an Eheim pump for e.g. that has a standard mains cable, where does it connect to that Noise Isolator card? Is that green thing towards top the mounting terminals for each wire - earth, live + neutral?

.: Fillip :.

[Pug]

mrplow - if the worst came to the worst, I'd sell 'em without leads (and chuck the 2pin ones in free ;)).

I can get proper plug converters which are just like ordinary 3pin plugs that clamp around these 2pin ones and screw shut with a tamper-proof screw but it'd just be another cost to pass on to the consumer (ie. you guys).
I used to offer the same deal on pumps - UK plug was £2 extra. No-one ever took me up on one.


As far as exposed electrickery goes - bear in mind that what you see will be face down when fitted. You can just see that there's another bare board bolted to the back by way of a cover (but a clip over cover/box would have been nice, I'll agree).
There are a couple of others available which are sealed units but I doubt I'll stock them. They're goddawful bulky for a start (unless you don't mind having an extension lead inside your PC together with a full-length pump power cable). :blink:



fillip - I haven't read the tutorial properly recently but if it'd help you or Star figure it out better, I could mebbe snap a pic of the corresponding circuit (I don't imagine I'd hurt sales by doing so. Economies of scale probably dictate that you'd be hard pushed to build the same thing cheaper if you value your time at all... :p ;)).

As far as the Eheim connection goes, yes, that's it.
In fact, seeing as we spent time on it - here's a link to the translated manual knocked up earlier. :)
http://www.wizarddesigns.co.uk/guides/pumpControl.htm
Side note - for the eagle-eyed, the one in the original pic (above) is an older model (and I think 120V max). The ones I have (linked guide pic) are a B revision board with a higher-rated relay, suitable for UK mains voltage.

[fillip]

Today is the day when all my worries drift away! :D

It wasn't really a case of saving money, though i wouldnt mind :p it's just that i'd like to do it as a self-teaching process, so i develope more of a clue around electronics, and the circuit in that tut' has a bit more functionality to it, like the ability to shut the PC down in the event of pump failure (simple flow switch)

if you value your time at all... didn't i mention i'm a student :huh: lol.

Havent spoken to star yet, and i'm sure he has better things to do anyway.
By the time i come to build it i may have it sussed anyway. I'm pretty confident it's not that hard to achieve as it simply involves a switch that takes the relay out of the equation so the pump is connected direct to the mains + therefore activates.
I think this would be easier to achieve from a circuit entirely self built rather than trying to bodge something out of a manufactured product so that it has same functionality as the one in tut'.

Anyway, thanks for all your help, has been most useful.

.: Fillip :.

[mrplow]

I think I might bodge one together and see how well I do ;)

If I don't post here for about a week, you know how well it went
(hint: not very)

[fillip]

with regard to the euro style leads, if you take the euro plug off i presume there are still the 3 internal cables as with any UK mains lead?! or as it's a 2 pin plug, is it missing one of those wires?

Just wondered if it was a case of attaching a UK plug to the cord for it to work.

I have a mains conversion kit which has the same type of adapter you mentioned, except it isnt tamper proof.

.: Fillip :.

[mrplow]

It probably doesn't have a ground lead. My old pump (from germany) doesn't... :unsure: crazy europeans


You gonna make one too filip?
Race ya!


Starting.......................................... ...............







.......now!

[fillip]

HAHA.

I'm not starting mine till i'm back home for easter/summer hol's - at uni right now and have no money/access to right equipment. :(

crazy europeans SAY WHAT?!?! where's the UK again?!?!

If there's no GND what do i do with the extra pin, that can't be safe.

[mrplow]

Originally posted by fillip@Mar 4 2004, 01:21 AM
If there's no GND what do i do with the extra pin, that can't be safe.
er nothing

our extra pin is ground. you don't "need" it but it can help you prevent untimely death.


and the UKs a separate entity, that just happens to occur within the geographical continent of "Europe".

[fillip]

and the UKs a separate entity, that just happens to occur within the geographical continent of "Europe".

thats crap.
I'm british + european. The Uk is clearly a european state as we have to abide by E.U. guidelines and regulations. Hell, we're gonna be forced to adopt euro soon. neway, well off topic :)

yeah, i dont much fancy have a loose wire, but anyway, if i'm building one, it dont matter

[Knipex]

Bad news guys

A ground is only used to earth metal components. If the pump is plastic no earth is required as there is nothing that can go live.

An earth is there in case a fault ocurs so the item cannot go live. It causes the potential of the item that is earthed to be the same as ground. Then if there is a fault and the metal parts go live it dumps it striaght to ground causing a current surge and hence the fuse or MCB to trip.

So plastic component like the eheim pump does nt require an earth.

[fillip]

That may be so, but the pump will still come with an earth wire since it is intended for use from a mains socket, regardless as to whether it actually requires one or not.

I'd just feel a lot more comfortable if i could account for all wires attached to the mains (which obviously i cant with a euro style plug as it hasnt got one.)

[Mrhardware]

That may be so, but the pump will still come with an earth wire since it is intended for use from a mains socket, regardless as to whether it actually requires one or not.

Think again, Does you cassette recorder or video with a figure 8 mains lead have an earth lead ??? No it does not, Neither does the eheim pump it only has a live and neutral cable no earth wire so I have to agree with Knipex on this one.:rolleyes:

[fillip]

Originally posted by Mrhardware@Mar 6 2004, 10:38 PM
That may be so, but the pump will still come with an earth wire since it is intended for use from a mains socket, regardless as to whether it actually requires one or not.

Think again, Does you cassette recorder or video with a figure 8 mains lead have an earth lead ??? No it does not, Neither does the eheim pump it only has a live and neutral cable no earth wire so I have to agree with Knipex on this one.:rolleyes:
OHHHHH.

I dont have a cassette player with a figure 8 connector, do have a mini fridge.
So i had a look, was about to try and shoot you down as it has one of those cardboard maps for the wiring on the back, clearly indicating an earth.

Good thing i cracked the plug open first, :blink: as you quite rightly say, no earth cable. I'd always just assumed there would be one in there.

Well, you've allayed my fears. thanks for that.

Presumably then, going back to the start of the post, all i do is swap the euro plug for a british one.

thanks for your help

[Mrhardware]

When you cut the euro plug off you will just find 2 wires which are brown and blue just like in the UK. Connect as you would usually do to live and neutral and away you go.. :D

[adwhitworth]

Rich, you can buy the leads here:

http://www.rapidelectronics.co.uk/PDFs/CAT...ins%2010.03.pdf (http://www.rapidelectronics.co.uk/PDFs/CATPDFs/October2003/08_Connectors_Mains%2010.03.pdf)

Look on page 168. The numbers are on the bottom left and right. It's the first thing on the page on the left.